Battle of the Sexes>

#167484 54 Thu Sep 29 18:44:14 1994 **** @ Dystopia ][, Bellingham, US/WA/Whatcom
i HATE cleaning!! why are females supposed to be so clean?? my mom's always b*tchin at me to clean my room........ i don't like it that way, i can never find anything!!
#167485 54 Thu Sep 29 20:38:21 1994 **** @ Dystopia ][, Bellingham, US/WA/Whatcom
i maintain that items are useless unless spread out over all available surfaces so that one can see exactly what one has.
#167907 54 Fri Sep 30 11:20:59 1994 **** @ The Laboratory, Seattle
I myself maintain that the best technique one can possibly use is to let everything go to crap for a period of a month, clean it all up, and repeat the cycle. works very well for me and sometimes I can even walk around in my room! (and besides as for spreading everything out, some things get buried on the bottom and so when you clean you find them! neat, huh?)
#167681 54 Fri Sep 30 15:55:56 1994 **** @ Dystopia ][, Bellingham, US/WA/Whatcom
Exactly!!!!!!
#167704 54 Fri Sep 30 16:10:15 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
Damn Straight.
#167703 54 Fri Sep 30 23:03:51 1994 **** @ Line NoiZe, Ferndale, U.S.A.
whoa this is not a conversation for the faint hearted...
#167906 54 Sat Oct 1 00:14:37 1994 **** @ Cave Bear's Laire, Seattle, USA/WA/KING
Right! I've got my room organized in my own special way. It's set up so I can find everything - and hey, it's my room, right? Who else has a right to be poking around for stuff, hmmn? See, it's also a "nosyperson" repellent. Nosy people are usually neat, ergo they get a headache from looking at my room.
#167846 54 Sat Oct 1 00:39:47 1994 **** @ Twilight Voice, South Wall, Up North, US/WA/WHATCOM
I hate cleaning, too...but I hate tripping over stuff even more. And besides, nobody else will do the damn job, so...
#168405 54 Sat Oct 1 17:09:18 1994 **** @ The Laboratory, Seattle
Well I'm nosy but I'm also a total slob so I wouldn't mind looking through the crap on your floor.
#169275 54 Tue Oct 4 15:22:01 1994 Megamol [ from tellagraph hill] @ Tellagraph Hill, Seattle
cleanliness is a state of mind, mine happens to be cluttered
#169274 54 Tue Oct 4 16:09:40 1994 **** @ Cave Bear's Laire, Seattle, USA/WA/KING
Him saying he shouldn't have to do his own shopping. bleck
#169542 54 Wed Oct 5 18:50:52 1994 **** @ Outsider's, Takoma Park, MD, US/MD/MONTGOMERY
I take it all back! But my "dirt Quotient" doesn't extend to dirty clothes or dishes -- I mainly stick to magazines, newspapers, books, more books, still more books, catalogues for more books, and various and sundry supposedly important pieces of paper. Everything else is dirt and must be cleaned. (Hence the piles of dusty paper all around the house....) Oh yes, and unfinished art and sewing projects. Those aren't junk either; I will get around to them. Maybe the problem is that my hubby defines dirt differently.
#170267 54 Thu Oct 6 06:09:53 1994 doctor doom @ Saint Dismas' Infirmary, Takoma No Nuke Park, MD, US/MD/PEOPLES' REPUBLIC
so you're saying you prefer to stick to dirty books?
#170268 54 Thu Oct 6 06:55:55 1994 Buster Hymen @ Saint Dismas' Infirmary, Takoma No Nuke Park, MD, US/MD/PEOPLES' REPUBLIC
Or at least the dirty books stick to him.
#170269 54 Fri Oct 7 04:35:16 1994 **** @ Outsider's, Takoma Park, MD, US/MD/MONTGOMERY
Sounds like a sticky situation
#171231 54 Sun Oct 9 21:57:23 1994 **** @ Cave Bear's Laire, Seattle, USA/WA/KING
Ewww...
#171389 54 Tue Oct 11 14:17:30 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
back to the battle......
#171506 54 Thu Oct 13 08:47:30 1994 **** @ Blain's World (not!) BBS, Ferndale, USA/WA/WHATCOM
Listening is a difficult thing for a male to do. In some cases, for a female to do also if the person speaking is someone they have any emotional attachment to. The problem is that when men try to listen they try to identify the problem so they can fix it, and they take whatever is said as a complaint about something that they have messed up and are being blamed for. So they rarely understand what the person speaking means, but they do have an understanding of what's going on. It's usually inaccurate, but it's an understanding. Men leaving when they say they won't? That's not a man problem, that's just a problem. The start of the problem is taking something that is said -- and meant -- as being all there is to say on the subject, and that nothing that happens will ever change things to where that is no longer healthy or even possible. Let's say that he says that he'll never leave and then you start beating him up every day and threatening to kill him or yourself if he ever leaves. The safest thing for him to do is to leave, but he remembers that he said he wouldn't so he stays a lot longer than he should and everybody suffers for it. I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but I'm using it as an extreme example of what happens. Short form is that things change and people shouldn't say stuff like that or ask/expect people to say stuff like that too early in a relationship. Work on your communication and listening so you can each know what's going on better so there are fewer nasty surprises. And don't try to make your relationship into something it's not ever going to be.
#171952 54 Thu Oct 13 17:50:30 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
it ain't easy to give it all up...especially when you do, you get burned that has a tendency to put people off, no matter who or what you are learned behavior and then it gets so that you always get just what you expect and you cannnot imagine things being different, after a while more... so, don't give your-self away just give of yourself and expect the same back if it isn't to your liking, then leave, and find someone else security? get your own, first, and never, ever let anyone else take it away oh, they will try...they fear it... recognize those who have this security, themselves...they will be apparent once you recognize it, in yourself...these are the people that you can be with, who can give/take, without attaching garbage and fears... this kind of freedom also has a positive-value return you have the freedom to be alone but, what price glory...
#171576 54 Thu Oct 13 19:15:31 1994 **** @ The Anticlimactic Teleservice, Seattle, US/WA/KING
like women never leave
#171953 54 Thu Oct 13 19:53:54 1994 [Just call me] Megamol [@ tellagraph hill] @ Tellagraph Hill, Seattle
Is this supposed to be an anonymous room???
#171577 54 Fri Oct 14 00:51:00 1994 **** @ Line NoiZe, Ferndale, U.S.A.
It's not early in THIS relationship, and I'm tired of trying to fix things when I'm the only one working on it. He claims to be working on it, but he's so busy thinking about himself and feeling sorry for himself because he can't have everything his way that he doesn't have time to look at what WE really are and are not. God forbid that I should have an idea that would be allowed a chance to work, so I don't think this one can be fixed. Too bad there's no good way out.
#171954 54 Fri Oct 14 05:31:59 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
Yeah, Exept For Your Phone Numbers Which Are Clearly Posted On The Screen On This End.
#171248 54 Fri Oct 14 12:11:01 1994 **** @ Blain's World (not!) BBS, Ferndale, USA/WA/WHATCOM
Um, I see a lot of third person talk in that. No one can change a third person. They can only change the first person. Third person stuff has to be taken care of by the third person, and first person stuff has to be done by the first person. Trying to cross those lines is certainly a choice, but it will be ineffective at best and counterproductive more likely than not. Not that I haven't tried, mind you, but it NEVER succeeds, no matter how much it can look like you have. And one person alone can successfully destroy a relationship. It takes two to make it work, but only one to break it. But I can't think of a case where it's really happened that way when you look really close. The best thing I can think of to do is to ask yourself if you have in any way contributed to the break-down in your relationship and then write down your answers, ignoring anything that comes after the "but." And then take responsibility for those things and work on improving them. It might be that your partner will follow your lead and take their own responsibility and address their stuff and then you can work on your relationship stuff and it will be good. It might be that that will take a very long time, and it might never happen. None of that is in your control. But identifying and handling your stuff is entirely in your control and no one else's. Being in a stuck place like that hurts like hell and worse. Once you're there, nothing is going to feel good for a while. Addressing your stuff and handling it will hurt a bit more up front, but it's surprising how quickly you start feeling better in places when you do that. Ignoring your stuff and focussing on other folks stuff can hurt less for a while, but then you find that you're still there for a long time. Doing things you know are stupid because of the pain is always an option, but the pain doesn't lift from you the reponsibility for what you've done, and you might do yourself a big favor by asking yourself if you really want to dig the hole deeper right then. I'm sorry that that wasn't a very good job of listening. I still need to work on that some more, I guess. If you want to give me another shot I'd appreciate it. Much of the above was said because I needed to say it, and I needed to hear it. If it's helpful to you now or at any other point, I'll be glad, but it comes with no warranty express or implied, even if state law requires differently, and your mileage may vary. I will give you your money back if not completely satisfied, though.
#172257 54 Sat Oct 15 03:31:18 1994 **** @ Tellagraph Hill, Seattle
yeah, but what if the stuff you did to contribute to the breakdown is stuff that's unchangeable or really not your fault. Sometimes relationships really suck the big one....
#172258 54 Sat Oct 15 07:07:18 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
Thats true too!!! But unfortunately I too can agree that if you want a relationship to work you need to work together! It took the two fo you to start the relationship it will yake you both to keep it together... If it's stuff that can't be changed or not really yours or your other halves fault then you need to ask yourself whether or not it's really that important to dwell on.. talk about what the problem was and see if you can go on knowing about it, accepting that it happened but also accepting thatyou can't change it!
#172496 54 Sat Oct 15 21:24:07 1994 **** @ Blain's World (not!) BBS, Ferndale, USA/WA/WHATCOM
And fault is almost irrelevant in that kind of thing. Taking responsibility is a good thing to do, even if its uncomfortable (it usually is, btw).
#172592 54 Sun Oct 16 03:30:57 1994 **** @ Line NoiZe, Ferndale, U.S.A.
Sure, if talking is possible then working things out is possible. But first you have to get BOTH people to actually talk, not just one person talking and the other one grunting "uh huh" now and then. Then you have to figure out how to sort out the truth from the cover-ups and evasions. We can't manage the first thing and the second seems totally impossible.
#172508 54 Sun Oct 16 20:05:10 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
if there are lies, cover-ups, and evasions, then there should be termination if the truth is unmanageable,, then there cannot be a starting point at all too many times I have seen the results of lies, both the ones that are told to the self, and to others...too much of it, really, and I'm put-off it even causes problems for the supposedly uninvolved I spent all day today...ten hours, chasing one lying weasel, who has managed to wreck, overnight, many peoples lives, and steal three cars, on top of it but, of course, he loves her he said that overandoverandoverandover ad nauseam... oh, yes, he loves her... and helps her slam the meth, too...
#172876 54 Tue Oct 18 04:06:04 1994 **** @ Line NoiZe, Ferndale, U.S.A.
Termination coming, but on MY terms!
#177237 54 Wed Oct 19 01:16:17 1994 **** @ Desolation Row, Baltimore, MD, US/MD/BALT
Women are too insecure. Men are too egotistical. Talk about Oppis attract.
#177290 54 Thu Oct 20 06:29:00 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
oh? males aren't insecure?
#177291 54 Thu Oct 20 09:41:41 1994 **** @ Tellagraph Hill, Seattle
really.....
#176843 54 Thu Oct 20 15:42:18 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
Why do women always complain about shitty men are, when they can't see a truly kind man, independant, loving, sensitive, cuddling, interested in having transcendental sex (although not requiring sex at all), sitting right in front of them. Thank you. Sincrely, GB
#176844 54 Thu Oct 20 15:42:28 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
(sorry about the typos)
#176845 54 Thu Oct 20 20:40:45 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
why is it men dwell so much on the past that when they fnd the girl they were looking for they don't stop to think thatnow may be the time to stoprunning!
#176834 54 Thu Oct 20 21:17:30 1994 **** @ The Zoo, Bellingham, USA/WA/WHATCOM
males are very insecure, they just don't want to appear so.
#176833 54 Thu Oct 20 23:06:14 1994 **** @ Blain's World (not!) BBS, Ferndale, USA/WA/WHATCOM
Lots of men are insecure.
#177280 54 Fri Oct 21 05:01:23 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
blanket statements are worthless.
#176846 54 Fri Oct 21 05:17:44 1994 **** @ Twilight Voice, City in the Clouds, US/WA/WHATCOM
GB...got the same question from the other side of the gender line... No answers, though...
#177281 54 Fri Oct 21 06:04:39 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
so are empty prmises!
#177282 54 Fri Oct 21 07:04:18 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
and so are empty blankets... ~|:(
#177283 54 Fri Oct 21 08:58:28 1994 **** @ The Used BookStore, Bellingham, USA/WA/WHATCOM
I think we all ahve questions that we can't answer. I know I do.
#177285 54 Fri Oct 21 12:35:26 1994 **** @ Twilight Voice, City in the Clouds, US/WA/WHATCOM
...and there are so many empty promises... including those blankets!
#177286 54 Fri Oct 21 12:58:41 1994 **** @ Tellagraph Hill, Seattle
let's face it, lots of men and lots of women are both insecure, and both sexes are equally likely to dump on the other....
#177287 54 Fri Oct 21 15:53:21 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
i'm insecure.
#177284 54 Fri Oct 21 15:55:31 1994 **** @ Blain's World (not!) BBS, Ferndale, USA/WA/WHATCOM
Blanket gender statements are nigh meaningless because -- excepting giving birth and similar reproductive things -- there are almost no behaviors that only one gender does. Men are more likely to do certain things than women are and vice versa, or maybe there is a tendency that they are more likely to do things in certain ways. But tendencies always break down when looked at in specifics. And maybe the problems with people of the other gender aren't caused by the gender difference. Maybe perhaps they are a result of who the individuals are and what they do which includes a lot more than just gender. Or maybe not.
#177130 54 Fri Oct 21 16:28:14 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
I think the question we should be asking is, "Why is it that <the last person you went out with> couldn't be something that my chisel could work with?" instead of "Why aren't there any sensitive/secure/independant/dependant/etc. guy/girls out there?" The latter is a dumb thing to say, because there are plenty of great people out there. Many of them have insecurities, that's true... I'm a male. I have insecurities. Thanks. But obviously I'm not afraid to post in this room without being anonymous. -GB
#177131 54 Fri Oct 21 18:34:04 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
and the former is a laming-thyang, GB even if it is allegedly done "for their own good" I never knew of chiseling/molding attempts before then I got a lifetime fillup on it... and, yep, there are some mighty fine people, "out there"
#176891 54 Sat Oct 22 06:44:38 1994 Irrelevant Bosch @ The Mountains of Madness, University District, US/WA/KING/SEA
there are cultural and biological tendancies tho and they may break down in specific models but any statistical model gets stronger when taken over a broader and larger sample. still valid, but most valid on the order of the sampling.
#176861 54 Sat Oct 22 09:27:15 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
I think that yes both men and women havethere own insecurities but what I don't understand is why some men won't admit it to them selves... women tend to at least admit htem to themselves even if they won't to anyone else!!!
#176862 54 Sat Oct 22 15:55:00 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
bullshit I know my insecurities well enough to keep someone-else from snaggin' on them and using them against me usually...
#177121 54 Sun Oct 23 02:38:54 1994 **** @ Line NoiZe, Ferndale, U.S.A.
Most men have there heads up their asses.
#176939 54 Sun Oct 23 09:30:35 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
thanx, ***** @ Line NoiZe love that vote of confidence
#177053 54 Sun Oct 23 10:06:20 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
Sure, there are complete assholes on bother sides of the spectrum. I've met a lot of women who won't admit their insecurities. I've met a lot of women who won't even talk to me about their true feelings. From my point of view, it seems to me, that there are a lot of in general insensitive people and insecure people out there. I think mostly the kind of person you go out with is the kind of person you have blindly fantasized to be whatever your ideal is. When you see that youre mate is not even close to what was running through your head before you got to know him/her, you perceive that person as being the epitome of all men/women. Anyways. I'm sensitive. I'm nice. I've got some insecurities, but so does pretty much everybody. Thanks. -= GB =- .
#176995 54 Sun Oct 23 22:53:32 1994 **** @ Blain's World (not!) BBS, Ferndale, USA/WA/WHATCOM
I think that there is a tendency for men to not admit their inadequacies (exceptions acknowledged) because there is an expectation that men must be strong, independent/autonomous, and a whole bunch of other things that get in the way. Just as there is an expectation that women must be pretty, soft, (fill them in please, I don't know them really well and I'm sure others do). Boiled to its essentials, men and women both have to perfectly fit those expectations or they are subject to criticism for their failure to do so. Men can be called things ranging from wimp to fag or pussy. Women can be called butch or I don't know (again). And of course men have their heads up there. What else are they going to do?
#177302 54 Mon Oct 24 07:26:44 1994 **** @ Loka, sea
what else? well, they can have one, or both heads up some sweet pussy, for one thyang...
#177303 54 Mon Oct 24 13:12:19 1994 **** @ 3aThe Ghetto0, 3Shoreline0, 3aJack's Basement0
Well, generally, I don't associate with any man who calls me a pussy or a fag. Because obviously anyone who would call someone that is a complete loser (unless it was in good fun and it wasn't about something serious). Yes. I am confident that I'm sensitive, because I've talked to countless men, and some women, who by far seem insensitive, not because they are independant (Independance by dependants is often perceived as cruelty) but because they lack some of the basics of compassion and think of themselves first in ALL occasions without really meaning too. If a man ever calls you a fag, and this has worked for me several times, say, "Why do you ask? Are you attracted to me?" There is really nothing they can do too defend themselves from that. They can say, "Hell no." but then you can say, "Well then why did you ask, unless you were a closet homosexual?" -=GB-0
Battle of the Sexes> _