Battle of the Sexes>
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i HATE cleaning!! why are females supposed to be so clean?? my mom's always b*tchin at me to clean my room........ i don't like it that way, i can never find anything!!
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i maintain that items are useless unless spread out over all available surfaces so that one can see exactly what one has.
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I myself maintain that the best technique one can possibly use is to let everything go to crap for a period of a month, clean it all up, and repeat the cycle. works very well for me and sometimes I can even walk around in my room! (and besides as for spreading everything out, some things get buried on the bottom and so when you clean you find them! neat, huh?)
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Exactly!!!!!!
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Damn Straight.
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whoa this is not a conversation for the faint hearted...
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Right! I've got my room organized in my own special way. It's set up so I can find everything - and hey, it's my room, right? Who else has a right to be poking around for stuff, hmmn? See, it's also a "nosyperson" repellent. Nosy people are usually neat, ergo they get a headache from looking at my room.
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I hate cleaning, too...but I hate tripping over stuff even more. And besides, nobody else will do the damn job, so...
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Well I'm nosy but I'm also a total slob so I wouldn't mind looking through the crap on your floor.
Megamol
cleanliness is a state of mind, mine happens to be cluttered
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Him saying he shouldn't have to do his own shopping. bleck
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I take it all back! But my "dirt Quotient" doesn't extend to dirty clothes or dishes -- I mainly stick to magazines, newspapers, books, more books, still more books, catalogues for more books, and various and sundry supposedly important pieces of paper. Everything else is dirt and must be cleaned. (Hence the piles of dusty paper all around the house....) Oh yes, and unfinished art and sewing projects. Those aren't junk either; I will get around to them.
Maybe the problem is that my hubby defines dirt differently.
doctor doom
so you're saying you prefer to stick to dirty books?
Buster Hymen
Or at least the dirty books stick to him.
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Sounds like a sticky situation
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Ewww...
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back to the battle......
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Listening is a difficult thing for a male to do. In some cases, for a female to do also if the person speaking is someone they have any emotional attachment to. The problem is that when men try to listen they try to identify the problem so they can fix it, and they take whatever is said as a complaint about something that they have messed up and are being blamed for. So they rarely understand what the person speaking means, but they do have an understanding of what's going on. It's usually inaccurate, but it's an understanding.
Men leaving when they say they won't? That's not a man problem, that's just a problem. The start of the problem is taking something that is said -- and meant -- as being all there is to say on the subject, and that nothing that happens will ever change things to where that is no longer healthy or even possible. Let's say that he says that he'll never leave and then you start beating him up every day and threatening to kill him or yourself if he ever leaves. The safest thing for him to do is to leave, but he remembers that he said he wouldn't so he stays a lot longer than he should and everybody suffers for it. I'm not saying that this is the case with you, but I'm using it as an extreme example of what happens.
Short form is that things change and people shouldn't say stuff like that or ask/expect people to say stuff like that too early in a relationship. Work on your communication and listening so you can each know what's going on better so there are fewer nasty surprises. And don't try to make your relationship into something it's not ever going to be.
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it ain't easy to give it all up...especially when you do, you get burned
that has a tendency to put people off, no matter who or what you are
learned behavior
and then it gets so that you always get just what you expect
and you cannnot imagine things being different, after a while more...
so, don't give your-self away
just give of yourself
and expect the same back
if it isn't to your liking, then leave, and find someone else
security?
get your own, first, and never, ever let anyone else take it away
oh, they will try...they fear it...
recognize those who have this security, themselves...they will be apparent
once you recognize it, in yourself...these are the people that you can be
with, who can give/take, without attaching garbage and fears...
this kind of freedom also has a positive-value return
you have the freedom to be alone
but, what price glory...
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like women never leave
Megamol
Is this supposed to be an anonymous room???
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It's not early in THIS relationship, and I'm tired of trying to fix things when I'm the only one working on it. He claims to be working on it, but he's so busy thinking about himself and feeling sorry for himself because he can't have everything his way that he doesn't have time to look at what WE really are and are not. God forbid that I should have an idea that would be allowed a chance to work, so I don't think this one can be fixed. Too bad there's no good way out.
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Yeah, Exept For Your Phone Numbers Which Are Clearly Posted On The Screen On This End.
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Um, I see a lot of third person talk in that. No one can change a third person. They can only change the first person. Third person stuff has to be taken care of by the third person, and first person stuff has to be done by the first person. Trying to cross those lines is certainly a choice, but it will be ineffective at best and counterproductive more likely than not.
Not that I haven't tried, mind you, but it NEVER succeeds, no matter how much it can look like you have.
And one person alone can successfully destroy a relationship. It takes two to make it work, but only one to break it. But I can't think of a case where it's really happened that way when you look really close. The best thing I can think of to do is to ask yourself if you have in any way contributed to the break-down in your relationship and then write down your answers, ignoring anything that comes after the "but." And then take responsibility for those things and work on improving them. It might be that your partner will follow your lead and take their own responsibility and address their stuff and then you can work on your relationship stuff and it will be good. It might be that that will take a very long time, and it might never happen. None of that is in your control. But identifying and handling your stuff is entirely in your control and no one else's.
Being in a stuck place like that hurts like hell and worse. Once you're there, nothing is going to feel good for a while. Addressing your stuff and handling it will hurt a bit more up front, but it's surprising how quickly you start feeling better in places when you do that. Ignoring your stuff and focussing on other folks stuff can hurt less for a while, but then you find that you're still there for a long time. Doing things you know are stupid because of the pain is always an option, but the pain doesn't lift from you the reponsibility for what you've done, and you might do yourself a big favor by asking yourself if you really want to dig the hole deeper right then.
I'm sorry that that wasn't a very good job of listening. I still need to work on that some more, I guess. If you want to give me another shot I'd appreciate it. Much of the above was said because I needed to say it, and I needed to hear it. If it's helpful to you now or at any other point, I'll be glad, but it comes with no warranty express or implied, even if state law requires differently, and your mileage may vary. I will give you your money back if not completely satisfied, though.
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yeah, but what if the stuff you did to contribute to the breakdown is stuff that's unchangeable or really not your fault. Sometimes relationships really suck the big one....
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Thats true too!!! But unfortunately I too can agree that if you want a relationship to work you need to work together! It took the two fo you to start the relationship it will yake you both to keep it together... If it's stuff that can't be changed or not really yours or your other halves fault then you need to ask yourself whether or not it's really that important to dwell on.. talk about what the problem was and see if you can go on knowing about it, accepting that it happened but also accepting thatyou can't change it!
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And fault is almost irrelevant in that kind of thing. Taking responsibility is a good thing to do, even if its uncomfortable (it usually is, btw).
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Sure, if talking is possible then working things out is possible. But first you have to get BOTH people to actually talk, not just one person talking and the other one grunting "uh huh" now and then. Then you have to figure out how to sort out the truth from the cover-ups and evasions.
We can't manage the first thing and the second seems totally impossible.
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if there are lies, cover-ups, and evasions, then there should be termination
if the truth is unmanageable,, then there cannot be a starting point at all
too many times I have seen the results of lies, both the ones that are told
to the self, and to others...too much of it, really, and I'm put-off
it even causes problems for the supposedly uninvolved
I spent all day today...ten hours, chasing one lying weasel, who has managed
to wreck, overnight, many peoples lives, and steal three cars, on top of it
but, of course, he loves her
he said that overandoverandoverandover ad nauseam...
oh, yes, he loves her...
and helps her slam the meth, too...
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Termination coming, but on MY terms!
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Women are too insecure. Men are too egotistical. Talk about Oppis attract.
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oh?
males aren't insecure?
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really.....
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Why do women always complain about shitty men are, when they can't see a truly kind man, independant, loving, sensitive, cuddling, interested in having transcendental sex (although not requiring sex at all), sitting right in front of them.
Thank you.
Sincrely,
GB
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(sorry about the typos)
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why is it men dwell so much on the past that when they fnd the girl they were looking for they don't stop to think thatnow may be the time to stoprunning!
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males are very insecure, they just don't want to appear so.
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Lots of men are insecure.
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blanket statements are worthless.
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GB...got the same question from the other side of the gender line...
No answers, though...
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so are empty prmises!
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and so are empty blankets...
~|:(
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I think we all ahve questions that we can't answer. I know I do.
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...and there are so many empty promises...
including those blankets!
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let's face it, lots of men and lots of women are both insecure, and both sexes are equally likely to dump on the other....
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i'm insecure.
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Blanket gender statements are nigh meaningless because -- excepting giving birth and similar reproductive things -- there are almost no behaviors that only one gender does. Men are more likely to do certain things than women are and vice versa, or maybe there is a tendency that they are more likely to do things in certain ways. But tendencies always break down when looked at in specifics.
And maybe the problems with people of the other gender aren't caused by the gender difference. Maybe perhaps they are a result of who the individuals are and what they do which includes a lot more than just gender.
Or maybe not.
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I think the question we should be asking is,
"Why is it that <the last person you went out with> couldn't be something
that my chisel could work with?" instead of
"Why aren't there any sensitive/secure/independant/dependant/etc. guy/girls out there?"
The latter is a dumb thing to say, because there are plenty of great people out there. Many of them have insecurities, that's true...
I'm a male. I have insecurities.
Thanks. But obviously I'm not afraid to post in this room without being anonymous.
-GB
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and the former is a laming-thyang, GB
even if it is allegedly done "for their own good"
I never knew of chiseling/molding attempts before
then I got a lifetime fillup on it...
and, yep, there are some mighty fine people, "out there"
Irrelevant Bosch
there are cultural and biological tendancies tho and they may break down in specific models but any statistical model gets stronger when taken over a broader and larger sample.
still valid, but most valid on the order of the sampling.
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I think that yes both men and women havethere own insecurities but what I don't understand is why some men won't admit it to them selves... women tend to at least admit htem to themselves even if they won't to anyone else!!!
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bullshit
I know my insecurities well enough to keep someone-else from
snaggin' on them and using them against me
usually...
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Most men have there heads up their asses.
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thanx, ***** @ Line NoiZe
love that vote of confidence
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Sure, there are complete assholes on bother sides of the spectrum. I've met a lot of women who won't admit their insecurities. I've met a lot of women who won't even talk to me about their true feelings. From my point of view, it seems to me, that there are a lot of in general insensitive people and insecure people out there.
I think mostly the kind of person you go out with is the kind of person you have blindly fantasized to be whatever your ideal is. When you see that youre mate is not even close to what was running through your head before you got to know him/her, you perceive that person as being the epitome of all men/women.
Anyways. I'm sensitive. I'm nice. I've got some insecurities, but so does pretty much everybody. Thanks.
-= GB =-
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I think that there is a tendency for men to not admit their inadequacies (exceptions acknowledged) because there is an expectation that men must be strong, independent/autonomous, and a whole bunch of other things that get in the way. Just as there is an expectation that women must be pretty, soft, (fill them in please, I don't know them really well and I'm sure others do).
Boiled to its essentials, men and women both have to perfectly fit those expectations or they are subject to criticism for their failure to do so. Men can be called things ranging from wimp to fag or pussy. Women can be called butch or I don't know (again).
And of course men have their heads up there.
What else are they going to do?
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what else?
well, they can have one, or both heads up some sweet pussy, for one thyang...
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Well, generally, I don't associate with any man who calls me a pussy or a fag. Because obviously anyone who would call someone that is a complete loser (unless it was in good fun and it wasn't about something serious).
Yes. I am confident that I'm sensitive, because I've talked to countless men, and some women, who by far seem insensitive, not because they are independant (Independance by dependants is often perceived as cruelty) but because they lack some of the basics of compassion and think of themselves first in ALL occasions without really meaning too.
If a man ever calls you a fag, and this has worked for me several times, say, "Why do you ask? Are you attracted to me?" There is really nothing they can do too defend themselves from that. They can say, "Hell no." but then you can say, "Well then why did you ask, unless you were a closet homosexual?"
-=GB-0
Battle of the Sexes> _