Citadel Suggestions>
Night Hawk
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ShadowStalker
net test
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Captain James T Kirk
haha...
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???
JayDee
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drivel...
Livia
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JayDee
Where, Livia?
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?
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Twilight
The ^bH thing...
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Valley Boy
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Valley Boy
Thanx, Mav.
JayDee
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err head
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Zen master
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Little Nemo
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Stimpy
Ack
Destroyer
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Kaptain K Mart
Good idea.
Carnivore :>
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Livia
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Aquarius
kkm: :p
B Man
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JayDee
hizz dick?
B Man
Aqua: :w
Kaptain K Mart
=#:-)
Kaptain K Mart
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HAR HaR!!
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Stimpy
Truth??? Ha
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Hmmm
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Zuke, Thanks
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wooooo
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Damn
chester cheetah
Internet not accessible from here. Cnnot access mailbase. Don't have snailmail. Will Internet ASAP, could be years. Keep your internet adress.
golden spud
chester> I thought I saw you telnetting to eskimo... ??
StraitJacket
Where is ferndale?
Black Wolf
Ferndale is next door to Bellingham, right on I-5 about 15-20 miles from the Canadian border.
Blain Nelson
Right here where I left it, StraitJacket.
MontyL
Head north, SJ, and back up ten miles when you hit Canada. Maybe 15...
Inchee
The only Citadel network that I know of to access the Internet is the Alternet.
ShadowStalker
citadel-86 had internet access long before maven put it into mavencit..
mail would be nice, but personally i can get along just fine without usenet groups (incedentally, i still have yet to see a message that has originated from 'alternet' in any usenet groups.. could it be that that rumour about it finally being two-way was bunk?)
uncle herb
Yeah, but what STATE?
Blain Nelson
Confusion. Mass confusion.
Black Wolf
Washington State of course.
MontyL
Washington, herb... 80-85 miles north of Seattle.
ZooKeeper
herbie -- WA. the other Washington.
Bookworm
Uncle Herb- Try auto verbose and read the headers.
Freejack
i was fixing (read: attempting to fix) my dryer earlier today and got this really neato vision of a future cit... (i'll call it VirtualCit)... why it came up then is one of those weird things... as electric clothes dryers and citadels don't have a whole lot in common... anyway...
this VirtualCit would of course be based on the then current graphic
platform as applies to remote connections. it would offer all the
trappings the future user demands. but it would be room-based, not
some silly gazillion level menu based monstrosity. upon logging in
you would be presented with an image of the Lobby. to locate your
present location or look at the map for it you would call it up on
a screen on the wall. you would actually traverse the hallways and
stairwells. enter applications or telneting or ftping, etc. etc.
could be accomplished by visiting the proper rooms. because this
VirtualCit would be multi-user, your digital image (or whatever
image you choose) would be portrayed to the other user upon meeting
them somewhere in the system. sysops/system adminstrators would be
able to remodel the system to their own tastes and/or needs. you would
see VirtualCits setup as offices, stores, haunted houses, even
bordellos. this VirtualCit sounds way cool... hell, a user could
actually lurk about creating his own little hidden rooms and
such. hmmm... wonder if it ever could be?
MontyL
You got ahold of the power leads while you were in the dryer, didn't you, Freejack? ;)
Sounds pretty intense.
ZooKeeper
sounds cool, but then, this time of night it would... :>
john hinkley
freejack>> its nice...but can my digital image be that of c.manson?
MontyL
I've dialed a couple, out of curiosity, but... Ah! Just a sec...
MontyL
Get yourself a RIP term, try DesignNet @ (800) 787-3638. That should give you an idea what RIP is all about. RDL Acoustics @ (800) 227-8391 is supposedly RIP also, but I've never connected.
Lab Rat
Alpha > As I said, it was primarily the similarity to doom and the way doom works that makes us think maybe he hacked the executable or stole source or something. either that or he was originally on the development team and decided to release some trade secrets in sourcecode form on the side.
it looks almost exactly like doom, although this person was kind enough to include some vertical translation routines (the example exe comes with "jump" capability, hit the spacebar and you fly upwards, then fall down)
Spur
can i have no head
Spur
please
Helix Quark
Actually you could set it up right now.. RIP that is. Just get a program to draw the menu and have it be the Menu and then set the script to return the citadel cmds for the action you want.
It could be done right now, tho it would be a kludge.
Alpha Wolf
no, of your real, ugly self Jh. :)
Another RIP BBS to try is CUIX.
thry have RIPTERM available for download.
I dont know about it though...
it could be rather simple to implement...
besides, its mostly on Wildcat! and searchlights..
but when BBS's get to be looking like Prodigy,
thats when i start to wonder...
RIP is rather slow...
Hmm....
I'll see what i can dig up...
GorgonZolA SlinKy
rip is on a lot of renegades too
Freejack
johnnie's image!? c. manson!? naw... you should use a pic of that goat you blew...
Black Wolf
hmmmm
GorgonZolA SlinKy
rip and cit just doesnt mix
Alpha Wolf
well, the do but it takes some work. :)
Helix Quark
actually, cit is perfectly set up for a non-linear graphical interface, so I absolutely disagree with GS@GHE.SEA
however, RIP is still rather infantile as it was last time I checked. the graphics just left a lot to be desired.
if you are in the local seattle area, then check out King of Cats (listed in the BBS ads in computer user) ... that'll give you an idea of how a totally graphical RIP board would work, tho even king of cats isn't fully implemented.
in fact it'd be interesting to combine Cit with an WWW server, even ...
the paradigm is the same as that of the MOO and MUD movement, and there is some rather spectacular things being done at Xerox PARC in relation to a LAN based Internat delivered multimedia MOO environment.
it would be rather as easy to implement hypertext codes as it would be to implement RIP or even NAPLPS ...
Mycophile
Hi, Alpha Wolf. Hi, GuS.
golden spud
What would be a useful implementation of RIP on a Citadel (which would be good for new users) would be a text window that showed a standard 80x25 viewing window, but on top would be a series of buttons for "Read", "Enter", "Dot Command", etc... and the menu would change when the context changed.
Then when they get used to the interface, they can trash the Really Icky Protocol term and use the normal commands.
Freejack
RIP doesn't impress me all that much... but imagine dialing a cit and romping around it... like you do in Doom or other similar games... that would be wild.
GorgonZolA SlinKy
Helix: I disagree
the reason I enjoy cit (besides the crowd)
is the fact that it is not clogged with fancy graphics, huge headers
and other lame-o time wasting things such as that
I enjoy being able to sit there and fill most of my screen with actual message content rather then ansi screens that take 5 minutes todisplay even at 9600 which is what rip in cit would eventually evolve to
there is a beauty in simplicity and I think rip would definatly disrupt that.
MontyL
Now that's quite an idea, GS! Beats training new users from console, only to find out that half of them are... so-so.
John
See, compare that message with previous messages. You didn't end it with, "Yeah, hey, I think I'll put that in SpudCit," like we should all thank you for it. You just made a suggestion. Do you see the difference?
Alpha Wolf
then do so and lets see the result..
Helix Quark
Well, the thing you don't get is that there already ARE huge headers.
You don't really understand cit at all, I'm afraid. The point to cit in this case is that you don't HAVE to use the large headers if you don't need them. If you have any doubt then try a verbose header scan.
'clogging' must not mean what I thought it meant, and where you get the idea that there's content on the citnet is beyond me.
BTW, the way that ROBOFX handles blbs is very simmilar to that suggestion up there about a graphical interface.
the thing you've missed of course is that I'm not talking about mandating a graphical interface, that's why it would be a kluge to do it now (now you wouldn't really be able to turn it off.)
your argument fails on several counts at least. what content? the headers exist already. you've assumed, without knowing, the kind of interface that I'm thinking of ... etc etc whatever.
I'm done with this for now, you can blather on if you like, but I won't respond to this subject for a while.
Livia
that has always been my attitude, gorgonzola
and as far as i know, also the attitude of richard/brent/matt
so we're fairly safe
Torch Song
GuS -- AMEN!
GorgonZolA SlinKy
helix: ok i will "blather on about this" you'll notice that I have several people complying with my arguement, including the citadel development team.
Lab Rat
helix > thank you for that completely meaningless flame.
the paradigm of cit is, on the surface, similar to but looked at carefully different from that of a mud environment, since there is an intensely greater quantity of data flowing out of a cit to the user than there is with a mud. a mud is based on interaction and a cit is based on delivery of information to the user.
so if you made cit into a graphical environment it wouldn't be a cit.
golden spud
John> everytime I see messages from you, it seems that you are trying to stifle the further development of Cit and Cit-like software.
WOULD YOU PLEASE SHUT UP?
My day has been hell... I'm trying to get around an illegal instruction error in the BC++ runtime library, which is keeping me from writing any more than I have now, I had to delete OS/2 only to find out that the installation program on the disk now locks up the computer, and now I have to listen to more of your shit.
Helix Quark
meaninglessness is my hobby. and majority doesn't make right.
who cares? I have no problem being a minority.
GorgonZolA SlinKy
Majority DOES make right when the people who program the software agree with me
majority DOES make right when the users of the software agree...
just give it up.
GorgonZolA SlinKy
although, helix,
I have to say that your board has the coolest name I"ve ever seen
JayDee
you may have to take the OS/2 partition off the hdd, GS...
I remember it was causing some users shit when I had to deal with it
and John may need some "distraction"
don't let him bug you
send a message to Straitjacket @ The Asylum about the problem
he may have the solution...he knows his CPP
John
If you think I'm trying to stifle further development of "Cit-like software" you are not only incorrect, but you have it backwards.
I am trying to stifle "talkers". Talkers are these dime-a-dozen people who like to brag (albeit slyly. They make references here and there to magical software that does not exist, and people worship them for it) about vaporware. I believe they hinder this other group, which I call "doers". These are people who actually get things done.
Helix Quark
Give up? Give up what? My opinion?
nope. no more than you will.
and thanks about the name.
Helix Quark
just for the record majority opinion makes majority opinion not 'rightness' ... the application of the term 'right' to anything on the order of opinion is 'mixing apples and oranges'
:P
Captain James T Kirk
I would like to see some kind of graphical protocol added to citadel... but not for the interface... just for message content... allowing people to add diagrams and graphics to their messages...
however, i DON'T want to see RIP added to cit... pick a better protocol...
Lab Rat
John >
There's sure a whole lot of worshipping going on here. Yup yup.
Mayhap theoretical babbling isn't as effective as actual implementation, but I don't see a whole helluva lot of other bandwidth around here except maybe for your flaming, and theoretical babbling can be fun.
I think maybe you have a warped sense of "fun."
Mostly it seems to involve the abuse of other people.
JayDee
weak abuse, at that
John
(JayDee called my abuse weak. Please double the punishment for a few days.)
Brent Bottles
I have a very hard time believing that there is an illegal instruction in the BCPP RLT.
More likely there is something in your code that is corrupting memory.
And why did you have to delete OS/2? And why do you now need to re-install it?
Helix Quark
of course it wouldn't be very hard at all to add Hyper Text Mark Up ...
golden spud
Brent -- I never said there was something wrong, it just appears that way when I debug. You're most likely right... I should trace through it and keep track of all of the memory allocation and such. But I'm rewriting it anyways (not much to rewrite).
I deleted OS/2 because I was getting fed up with "bad-version" errors from having filesystems and drivers and programs installed from OS/2 2.1, OS/2 2.11 (CSD), and an OS/2 2.1 beta I got off of the Internet (that I mistook for the Warp beta -- didn't have any readmes).
Plus there was an accident a couple months ago that got rid of the drive icons. And I just wanted to start over, so I could get at my HPFS drive that was "improperly stopped" and needed to be CHKDSK'd.
JayDee
sometimes a modified os is way-cool
keeps some problems from going-down
but what price glory
indiscriminate writes to the mbr...ugh
Brent Bottles
So you just randomly install test versions of operating systems that you find lying around the internet? Did IBM make the beta version available? That seems quite odd.
(Besides, I'll give you a little hint: "beta" versions are test versions, which means that you might have problems when running them.)
Why are you rewriting it now?
Helix Quark
oh my god, that is the lamest thing I've heard in a long time.
my first suggestion is that you learn to use the erase and delete commands.
maybe the MD CD and RD commands
and the PATH and LIB statements ...
maybe you should sell your computer and start with matchbox cars?
Helix Quark
toplevel.bat
== top of file ==
:CIT
ctdl -a
attrib -h .\temp\*
del .\temp\*
goto CIT
exit
== bottom of file ==
a reliable way to delete old swap files.
JayDee
heh...
golden spud
(I sure as hell do not want to argue about why I deleted OS/2)
No, I don't just randomly install test versions of operating systems... I heard news somewhere that the Warp beta was at that particular site, and I thought that was what I was getting. I stuck in the disk, and it said "2.1" so I just rebooted (this was a long time ago, and nothing was installed).
A friend of mine who had damaged disks was borrowing my original disks at the time that I needed to install the CD-ROM filesystem, so I took the file off of the OS/2 2.1 beta disks that I still had. Unfortunately, they kept real good track of versions, and it kept saying "wrong version" and such.
Anyways, I was getting so fed up with the darn thing, and there were other problems that I had accidentally created (deleted the drive icons) that I decided to reinstall. So I deleted the OS2 directory and all of the startup files associated with it.
When I tried reinstalling from the original disks that I now had, I got a trap error (essentially a debugged lockup) on the second disk everytime I tried. I retrieved the files from the HPFS partition with a shareware program onto C:, and then deleted and created D: again into a FAT partition, but it still came up with the TRAP error. I haven't gotten around to calling IBM about it yet, but I am going to tomorrow (Monday).
As for why I'm rewriting SpudCit now -- I noticed some things about the code that I didn't like (particularly the organization) and at this early of a stage, I felt it'd be much easier to start from scratch than to try to extensively modify what I had at the time.
golden spud
Helix> who the hell are you talking to?
Brent Bottles
Helix Quark: doesn't that batch file create an endless loop?
and that is not reliable. it makes the assumption that nothing else (such as another shelled Citadel) puts anything in your temp path that it doesn't want deleted just yet.
while you are probably pretty safe in implementing such a batch file yourself, as you know how you have your computer set up, there is no way that we can safely put something like that into Citadel: we don't know how every computer that will ever run Citadel is set up.
Helix Quark
actually it only looks in the cit temp path and it only deletes temp files without extentions, which are cit temp files.
and yes it created an loop, on the top level. that's the point.
and who said that _you_ should implement it? I didn't. I suggested it as a way to solve a problem.
:)
JayDee
there are others who don't know how every Citadel is set-up, either
and yes, endless-loops do result from stupid batch-files
stupid batch files compiled into .com files and called PKZIP.COM
and run on a Cit that uses the archiver that has been named PKZIP...
clue:
even the operating system may be just a little mutated to survive...
Goltar
made back-up of 64 .dat files but no problems installing and changing
things in config.cit btw RICHARD; what is the command for 14400???
it locked matthew at 300 strange bug
JayDee
your shit don't work here, or anywhere-else you send it
and, it is already too late for you to give it up...
oh, well...
John
clue:
soon the operating system will be a whole lot mutated, and may not survive.
Megamol
john...see Announcements...
John
Megamol: I don't carry "Announcements".
Citadel Suggestions> _