GremCit Bugs>
B Man
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B Man
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Crabapple
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UNIcorn
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B Man
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Xiphiplastron
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Overlord
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B Man
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B Man
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B Man
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Whippersnapper
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err head
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err head
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Kaptain K Mart
Shut-up, B Man.
The Maven
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JayDee
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Ed Gein
Exaxctly.
Ambition
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B Man
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swandOg
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swandOg
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B Man
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Twilight
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Overlord
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swandOg
thanks for the help with the bulletin menus.
You need to put your HSLink somewhere your path (in your autoexec.bat) recognizes. The way I did it was to just move it and all associated files into DOS, and put DOS into my path statement.
Kaptain K Mart
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Saint Bob
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The Maven
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Night Hawk
I just wandered into my Aide room and it told me there were 4294967294 new messages (1301 total, 1169 messages, 4294967294 new.) In reality there were 2. On telling me i deleted a message, and then a copy of the deleted message. Hmmm.... Anyboyd know why this would happen?
Ed Gein
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Ambition
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Stimpy
Err Head.
Damn, gotta get that ironed out.
swandOg
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Saint Bob
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B Man
I'm running 63.1. No need to send it. However, 64 would be nice. If it's out, that is. I got it from Doomed To Failure.
Anyway, my problem. I can't seem to get the #PROMPT to work right. At first I tried it without a #PROMPT, and it's not giving me the neat color (inverse on my mono monitor) or the net prefix. So I tried writing it out as "%n^A2%r%e" (Ctrl code translated, of course, I'm not THAT stupid.), and even that didn't work. So now I don't know what to do.
B Man
Also, for some reason, when I log out, it gives me a 2 where it should be changing color. Eep. But when I'm logged in, it doesn't do that. Also, for some reason, none of the menus are appearing. Where should I put the ctdl.mnu? I have it in my homepath. Let's try to move it to the help.
B Man
Okay. That one worked at least.
ShadowStalker
net test (on your nerves yet?)
Brent Bottles
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GremCit/063
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err head
foundation
what's your modem init string?
Xiphiplastron
swandOg: Best place to put HS-Link is in your #APLIC path.
Also, could you kindly remove that bell from your board's #SIGNATURE line? It gets most annoying.
B Man
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Crabapple
You know it's really bloody irritating when enquiries for help go ignored.
Kaptain K Mart
I still don't think hs callers can call my BBS with my HS strings. haha.
Ambition
Ok, here's one for ya . . .
I was chatting with one of my work associates who managed to call SilverStation today. I broke chat, hit f6 and proceeded to add him to a number of groups. EVERY group I modified for him read "kicked out" . . . even though I removed him from NO groups.
I think that's a bug.
Richard Goldfinder
.SJ will journal a room (save all messages in the room to a file).
.AER will toggle the archive room bit (save future messages in that room to a file).
ALT+P can be used on a per-message basis, as can .A< and .EO with an external editor.
err head
b man
you mean if you do a .ec and modify your prompt it isn't working?
of course changing #prompt wouldn't change your user prompt since it's user configurable, all it provides is the default for new users
<i think at least, haven't bothered with it yet>
err head
swandog
what is your dumb modem setting
what is your inint baud
what is your #modeminit string
what exactly do you have uphours and updays set to?
if you could pull this info from your config.cit and post it then troubleshooting would be easier
Nasal Slime Eruption
configurable room prompts are just so great.
i'm so glad the gremcit developers thought that one up.
=)
Counselor
A conversion program for 062 to 063? Another conversion, huh? Oh, well.
Err Head, would you please net69 those files over here? I've never seen that work, yet. :)
Twoflower
yep, yep. no one EVER had configurable room prompts before. what a neat, NEW feature.
Twoflower
Oh, yeah, a couple of things I was interested in seeing in a future version:
1.) applications available at certain hours, or possibly certain days as well (I dunno if this was ever implemented, but I know it's been suggested before.)
2.) more flexiblitly for cron events, such as by date or once-a-month, instead of the max time being once-a-week. I'd love to auto my stat program for once-a-month.
err head
counselor
what is your settings for trans, temp, and dlpath?
cuz i already sent you the files
err head
"62 does not want to work"
not a very informative bug report
not much that can be done with that little data
every other 61 sight upgraded successfully
quite a few people have run 62 and 62.1
a message stating what exactly your problem is would probably get a lot more response
or a phone call to the voice number at the bottom of this message
Twoflower
Why would it have to be gross from a .AE standpoint?
when someone types .EA (or .ED), check hours. If it's not available, return the user
to cit with a message stating that the application is not available and when it
would be. the info lines would be perfect for sysops to use to impart hour
information.
to avoid adding new bits to the room table, you could store applic information
in a seperate file, with info listed by room table number. and it would take sooo long to open
and close a 100 byte file, I'm sure.
when someone does a .AE, if there is an application [an automatic flag to check
the applic info file,] have it display hours [and days, if that's added.] if
there is no application, don't bother. when someone adds an application
to a room, ask them the uphours and updays (with the default being ANY) and
write that info to the applic info file. when an application is taken from a
room, have it wipe the info in the applic info file.
really doesn't seem all that difficult to me.
Twoflower
Uping #REDO would be great, if all months were the same length, but since they can swing from 28 days to 31 (a possible difference of 4320 minutes,) it would be inaccurate, and bad for anyone wanting to run a cron event on, say, the first of every month.
Brent Bottles
Todd - I do not think that anybody every claimed that configurable room prompts
were a new idea. I just did a .RRK for "prompt" and saw no such claims.
Features from Fredcit, Turbocit, Mavencit, and yes, even Elegia, made their way
into /063. What's your point? (I think that I added a few things to Elegia's
implementation of configurable room prompts, but I don't remember for sure.)
GremCit already took user-configurable time/date stamps from Elegia. Woo woo.
Limited-time applications would be a pain for user interface. (That is, the
.AE part of it. Limited-time applications in EXTERNAL.CIT would be doable
without too gross of a user interface.)
I'll up #REDO in CRON.CIT to be a long (instead of an int) so you can set it
to enough minutes for a monthly thing.
Brent Bottles
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* LOGINNEW.C Gremlin's Citadel */
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* Overlayed new user login log code */
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
#include "ctdl.h"
#pragma hdrstop
#include "pragmas.h"
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* Contents */
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* loginNew() login a new user, handel diffrent configs.. */
/* newUser() prompts for name and password */
/* newUserFile() Writes new user info out to a file */
/* newlog() sets up a new log entry for new users returns ERROR */
/* if cannot find a usable slot */
/* newslot() attempts to find a slot for a new user to reside in */
/* puts slot in global var thisSlot */
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
.
.
.
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
/* newlog() sets up a new log entry for new users returns ERROR */
/* if cannot find a usable slot */
/* #oldcount implemented! */
/* -------------------------------------------------------------------- */
int newlog(void)
{
int ourSlot, i, v;
/*
* get a new slot for this user
*/
thisSlot = newslot();
if (thisSlot == ERROR)
{
thisSlot = 0;
return(ERROR);
}
ourSlot = logTab[thisSlot].ltlogSlot;
/*
* Fill in the account.
*/
v = logBuf->VERIFIED;
getLog(logBuf, ourSlot);
memset(logBuf, 0, sizeof(struct logBuffer));
.
.
.
/* elegia */
strcpy(logBuf->prompt, cfg.prompt);
strcpy(logBuf->dstamp, cfg.datestamp);
strcpy(logBuf->vdstamp, cfg.vdatestamp);
.
.
.
return(TRUE);
}
Kaptain K Mart
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swandOg
Net test
Brent Bottles
twoflower - wanting to run an application every 70000 minutes makes more since
to me than wanting to run an application on the first day of the month. but i
am strange. you know that.
the .AE would be a pain to edit. "List what hours to make this application
available on:"
then respond...
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23
and hit enter.
oops. forgot the 22. try that again...
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 123 14 15 ...
oops. that was 123, not 13.
you get the idea.
Putting this information in another file would be goofy: the ROOM.DAT makes
total sense for it, and it would be a pain to put it elsewhere.
B Man
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Nasal Slime Eruption
hey, wow.
does that mean i get a sideways line into gremcit on the tree?
=)
(and todd, i was not saying that it was bad. i was in a silly mood. i do that. i say silly things. it was an attempt to amuse myself. it worked.)
(la la la la la la.)
Kaptain K Mart
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Crabapple
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Crabapple
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err head
yep
Twoflower
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Brent Bottles
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Saint Bob
Re: ROOMHEAPPAGES and LOGEXTDIR: me too.
Saint Bob
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naaah...
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Mr. Psychologist
Nor did I.
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Thanks B Man
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dude
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?
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u suck
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Handles Cant Have Dollar Signs
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Err Head????
JayDee
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WIN=The Wind
Kaptain K Mart
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Rev. Alpo Star
...compressed...
Aphrodite
...compressed...
Kyrie Fern
...compressed...
Captain James T Kirk
...compressed...
UNIcorn
...compressed...
Kaptain K Mart
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
Zake Zuke
...compressed...
Bran Tregare
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
Zake Zuke
...compressed...
Heather R. Scott
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
UNIcorn
...compressed...
Bran Tregare
...compressed...
Captain James T Kirk
...compressed...
Richard Goldfinder
...compressed...
Counselor
...compressed...
Twoflower
...compressed...
Kaptain K Mart
...compressed...
Rev. Alpo Star
...compressed...
UNIcorn
...compressed...
Twoflower
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
VIOLENTPINKPHENOMENON
...compressed...
Gravity
...compressed...
Captain James T Kirk
...compressed...
Captain James T Kirk
...compressed...
Zake Zuke
...compressed...
Captain James T Kirk
...compressed...
Captain James T Kirk
...compressed...
Brent Bottles
hardware.cit:
#snddriver "sb"
chess piece face
anyone want to help me anymore, or am i a lost cause?
MontyL
chester answered it, cpf. ATO1 is okay, since it will recover from a noise glitch more readily. ATO (or ATO0, same-o, same-o) will only go back to data mode, and not attempt a retrain. ATO0 is quicker than ATO1. Your choice, change it if it takes too long to retrain (users describe a serious pause, etc.).
Ren
Brent: do i put the sbsim.exe in the main dir?
and do i need to edit my external.cit?
chess piece face
no, no one has answered it, fully.
StraitJacket
if someone has v42bis, why would they be calling at 2400?
Brent Bottles
Because, StraitJacket, they might have a modem capable of v.42bis but no speed faster than 2400, of course.
You can do my same suggestion when calling at a higher speed, if you want. The difference is that it will take longer before you fill the modem's buffer, since the data is getting out fairly quickly. But still not as quickly as the data is getting into the modem.
Ren: run SBSIM.EXE before you run Citadel; it's a TSR.
Add #EVENTs to EXTERNAL.CIT as specified in the documentation. (What you are doing is attaching scripts that play sounds to various system events.)
chess piece face: your modem is evil and cannot be figured out over the BBS. Remember that I was not able to make it work when we were on the phone with each other six or more months ago? I have just been sitting here watching people try to fix what I know is an unfixable problem. (Unless they happen to get really lucky, or have the same modem as you and have figured out how to make it work.)
In case you don't remember, and to let everybody else here know, your modem was sending perfectly valid result codes to Citadel (as determined when I called several times at various speeds with debug mode turned on), but Citadel is not understanding them.
Which means that it might be doing something hideously evil like sending bogus characters, like perhaps ASCII 255 (0xFF) for space, or something equally obnoxious.
I don't think that it is at all likely that you will get your modem working with Citadel unless you have an expert go to your house, and do a lot of looking around.
And by "expert," I really mean "expert," and not somebody who has done it a couple of times and feels fairly comfortable with the process.
MontyL
What is it of your question that's gone unanswered? I've read through the last 30 messages three times now...
Myrkul
I'm having problems with my board: it freezes occasionally (Inevitably) when someone trys to enter a message. When I come back from wherever, I find that I have to reboot in order to unfreeze it.
It doesn't happen all the time someone tries entering a message. But it usually happens on the 2nd or 3rd caller.
I've tried resizing MSG.DAT, resizing #MESSAGEK, resizing #MAXHALLS /rooms /etc, turning off modem buffering/compression, disabling V.42bis operation, and just about everything listed in the modem manual or that I can think of. Nothing seems to work.
It seemed to start when I started netting, but since then I have killed all my net rooms. There are no incoming messages. I resized MSG.DAT to 1024 instead of 4096, it didn't fix it. I now have it at 4096 again.
Anyone?
chess piece face
fuck.
i had hoped that someone would have come up with the problem.
hell. i may as well switch to renegade just so that more people cna call.
oh god.
can't believe i just said that.
MontyL
Ahhh... the rest of the story comes out...
Tough break, cpf.
Saint Bob
I get that no-drop-on-logout problem too. Sometimes it effectively shuts off my board for half a day.
chess piece face
how
can
i
get
low
speed
callers
to
be
able
to
log
in?
as brent said, there is no answer.
i did switch to renegade.
i hope this will remedy the problem.
chess piece face
does citadel accept numeric responses, or does it have to have extended?
John
Livia, SLD is having trouble netting with your board. It hasn't done so successfully since Sep30. It sends the initials and starts waiting, but ultimately ends with a NO CARRIER (or rather, <N><O>< ><C><A><R><R><I><E><R>) message.
Any idea what's happening?
JayDee
same here for Amber...last roomreq was dated the 27th, also for The Raft,
which was dated on the 16th...
funny thing on the fetching for The Raft, tho...
sometimes it fetches a huge packet, which means the message pointers
are mass-hosed on my end; other times, the fetch is normal
and is there any way to terminate a fetch, besides Big Red action?
Cave Bear
chess piece face, yes. citadel accepts numeric responce code. this is done in your config.cit. please read the documentation default settings. it is done in choosing your dumb terminal settings. 1, 3 and 6 are verbose i think.
john, sld and cbl were having a similar problem. One of the two nodes needs to check its node.cit entry for proper configuration or possibly both. if they were functional before then something was inadvertantly changed and needs to be corrected.
gosh....i feel like such a goltar. non-ts person that i am who knows nothing but thinks a plenty.
JayDee
my nodes.cit file hasn't changed since Sept 12, and was functioning fine
just did a check on it, and nothing has been altered on the LOK.SEA end
anyone know if removing the &C1 &D2 from the Cit init string would cause
a modem to ignore "hang up" at the end of Hs-link file transfers?
JayDee
it isn't my config.cit
and in Commo, &C1 &D2 cause an error
next time I'm up on the Hill, I'll put it back in teh.sea
cron events will not be run untill I'm satisfied there is no bullcit...
Cave Bear
Yes it would JayDee. You go right to your config.cit and put those back!
JayDee
thanx, CB...
I was just using the more popular xxx.xxx combination
I must have been brainwashed by conformity
I will attempt to do better, in appropriate cases...
now, I have to get that old modem of hers to work, if possible
on test forced nets, massive errors, like bad CRCs, happen, and xfer aborts
according to SJ @ ASY.SEA, the event completes ok on his end, tho...
my car tabs expired
gotta do something about it before I can trek to QA Hill
Cave Bear
One question JayDee. Why address a node named "Tellagraph Hill" "teh.sea" when "th.sea" would be less confusing and more accurate? In any event, the node's pointers and everything else from my side has been set so inform sysop MegaMol that she's good to go.
*Unofficial News Release*
Citadel+ /065a123
Update October 3rd, 1994
This is by far one of the cleanest and sweetest alpha releases yet. It is faster and much more difficult to find *any* bugs what-so-ever. Incorporation is automatic. Sysop and User configurations are seamless, console commands are hot keyed and brisk. Netting is no longer a task but a true event. The only concerns I see for anyone is program size as it takes up a few megs of disk space and memory dependancy as this too requires at least 640k but runs much better with more memory.
This opinion is strictly mine own and does not reflect that of anyone else's.
While the novice user may not be familiar with the built in default settings and help blurbs, the documentation will be a required reading which will readily answer most perplexing questions.
JayDee
I got the old Sanyo 555 back
with MS-DOS loaded, I have 690K avaiable for applications
one hitch...
Citadel allegedly requires 3.0 and above
Sanyo 555s only run on 1.17-2.11...
waaah
Lab Rat
CB >
"requires at least 640k but runs much better with more memory"?
well I'll just pull out that old kluge HMA / XMS manager and pump up to the 720k I once got out of it then eigh?
(I assume you are in fact referring to XMS availability)
(sorry just in one of those humorous flame moods)
JayDee
you are the fradulent Livia, and you are busted
the real Livia knows how to spell piece
you don't
I'm going to hunt you down
and find you
you will swing, for this
punk...
Livia
but /065a136 is a unreliable, bug ridden peice of filth
Cave Bear
I know nothing of /065a136. From what I gather, this is a tongue in cheek remark from someone I admire and respect very much.
Little Nemo
ahem.
John, Slumberland's alias is SLD. I assume, however, that you were referring to Saltlick of Desire, which is SOD, right? But Cave Bear was referring to Slumberland? Confusion abounds...
Livia
and you are just as stupid as you were the last time one of us made that little joke, jaydee
try .h elegia on my board sometime
JayDee
Livia:
you are nonsane
but I don't care
I'll try your suggestion, sometime...
JayDee
it isn't my decision
and I had assumed that xxx.xxx was the convention
I also assumed that there were other conventions that held true
but, that isn't exactly the point
I'm just pissed about somethyang-else...
Counselor
I agree, JayDee, why isn't the alias for Tellagraph Hill TH? Let me know if you decide to change it to this.
JayDee
bfd
Livia
the raft has always been tr.sea, as you would see if you looked at your message headers
so much for that convention
golden spud
JayDee> I believe the xxx.xxx convention would mean "up to three characters for the node alias, and up to three characters for the region abbreviation". Also, remember that some airport abbreviations have four characters.
Cave Bear
JayDee, that paraphrase is an inside joke.
A few years ago, (I wish someone would dig that up and post it in bbs history)
Peter Torkelson, aka JoeSama, The Dragon, aka Kinomon Firestar ragged another
programmer's work or code and referred to it as such ("..a bug ridden piece
of filth.") The funny part was/is that for all his rage, ego and talent,
his spelling was (and possibly still is) worst than mine or anyone else I
know over the age of puberty.
I still hold fond memories of him calling my board and deleting files from there because his girlfriend got pissed off at me. The files were alpha versions of dragcit 312d or whatever it was along with prism front door. Vrykolakas aka Penny Pritty or whatever was rude and arrogant and I told her as such over the phone. She was doing all of peter's documentations for his eventual release so his true spelling bombs never made it out but man...you should count your blessings if you never had to chat on-line with that guy!
JayDee
well, I probably would have gotten a different load of crap, if I had used
th.sea, so bfd...nitpicking seems to be a Citadel feature...
but BorgCity is bc.sea, and I set that one up, too, a couple-months ago
bfd
now, what would the airport designation be for a place around the Sappho-
Beaver area?
WHoKNoWS
example of 2400 v42 would be me if i still used my 2400 that i bought 1.5 years ago.... but i got a supra14.4 so the 2400 is in the closet awaiting me to find antoher use for it most of the time....but it is v42 &v32 capable....
old ones were not but for those losers like me who bought newer 2400s the compression does exist....
Livia
it wouldn't be very hard to "dig out"
.h elegia, even
StraitJacket
JayDee... FAI or FIA (I think the first is the correct one)
JayDee
alfuckinright, Livia
I'll "dig it out" even
I do so hate exhuming corpses, tho
but, just because you asked
and it will decrease my alleged level of stupidity, I assume?
JayDee
cool, SJ
now, if packet-switching by radio is possible
Bypass and Covert User can exchange pleasantries...
Flying Wombat
Cave Bear: he was (and for all we know, still is) dyslexic. the comments in the source code followed the same spelling pattern. oh, well. I'd probably take this to BBS History if anyone wants to go into any more depth.. he was referring to Eliga (oops, Elegia).
MontyL
From within 064.2:
[Net]gremcit test> ;;elegia
Tue 28 May 91 0.03.49 From Joo-Sama
Well of course you took it out right after you implemeted it, it was such a
dumb idea and all.
I generaly have managed to keep my opinion about your work on this system to
myself. But since you can't manage that yourself I think I would like to let
you know what a peice of shit I think Eliga is.
It is a unreliable, bug ridden peice of filth.
And if you don't like these comments perhaps you might learn a little tact
yourself.
[Net]gremcit test>
Ren
Are there any Califorina boards calling here?
StraitJacket
Could someone fix the problem on counselors BBS. he has too many files and 64.2 can't handle that many files. (Same condition as my BBS had... I U/L ed all of my files to him.)
JayDee
I remember that message when I did a looksee into a swapfile that was for
Anarchy Park, the night Brent took the box down to MS-DOS from remote...
mm..
Flying Wombat
yup, I remember that message when it was first emitted.
Heather R. Scott
:) Yeah, Dragon is dyslexic... very much so... about the same as my hubby. :)
Livia
so you called skyline, zen?
how naughty
StraitJacket
I fixxed ctsrts.
ZooKeeper
I'm here Alpha.
does that count for anything? ;>
MontyL
StraitJacket> Since Counselor is running a GremCit, try #MAXFILES 500, or something to that effect, in CONFIG.CIT. It defaults to 150, so lower might do just fine. Then again... 063.4 might not have that feature.
Alpha Wolf
NET TEST!!!!
quoting the famous Pink floyd line,
"Is there anybody out there?"
JayDee
difficult question
difficult, at best
StraitJacket
Alpha: what test... i don't see a net-test.
Freejack
what's the significance behind ;;mavencit?
Black Wolf
net test recieved, sent back
Torch Song
No, Alpha Wolf, there's nobody out here.
<snicker, even>
Bookworm
Alpha Wolf- Of course not. We are all fig newtons of your imagination.
MontyL
"Is there anyone at home?" ;)
uncle herb
Bob, is it possible to translate FredCit ads so they can be used on Gremcit?
Megamol
no Monty, no one is home...some of them can't find there way home and some have run away...
JayDee
megamol:
it is "their way home"
just thought I'd let you know before she got-after ya...
Megamol
thanks JayDee that's what I get for trying to communicate after I first wake up....
JayDee
sometimes it is impossible to correct things, no matter what
shit...
Livia
megamol makes so many mistakes that i wouldn't waste my time trying to correct
them
assuming that i am the "she" in question
freejack: gremcit has a twirly cursor that moves along the reconfigure progress bar, as i'm sure
you've noticed. someone asked for a similar feature in mavencit, and the maven
came up with a twirly cursor in brackets that just sits there and spins while
it reconfigures. i don't know if it's still that way, though.
Helix Quark
eek, monochrome sux ...
Lab Rat
What's really funny, though, Liv, is that the twirly cursor emitted by ;;mavencit is broken. It only has seven out of the eight spin positions. Excellent irony.
I don't know if it's fixed in /065 or not though.
JayDee
the ;;mavencit twirly-cursor looks fine, and is a worthy feature, as well
eight spin postions?
jeez, get a grip
they will start thinking you are as bats as I am (allegedly, har...)
Livia
what are you talking about, lab rat?
the standard twirly cursor "twirls" using only four characters: | \ - /
the ;;mavencit one certainly uses all four
"spin positions"??
Alpha Wolf
okay, net-test out of Palace worked, all I ned to do now is get some carriers where i can get a net feed... :)
Torch Song
Hmmm....my twirly has more than four characters...
/-\|*@ to be exact, six characters...
MontyL
I think he's referring to the fact that the \ character is missing from the build we've been running, Livia. | / - are there, but \ is painfully absent, for whatever reason.
scorpio
hmm...i think lab rat is right...
as far as i can tell, there is no '\' position in the ;;mavencit cursor in
64_2.
Alpha Wolf
odd...
twi(t)rly cursor on mine is
°±²Û²±°
Freejack
just sits there and spins... heh heh
thanks Livia.
gee-whiz. i'm learning all this cit stuff...
i shall soon know true nerdiness... or some such nonsense...
Saint Bob
The only lame thing about running multiple cits and sharing #transpath is that users will see the same new messages twice, once on each system (if they *use* both systems). Want multiline cit? Go Unix.
chester cheetah
I suggest that the default address of any CIT system should be .CYB (cyberspace) unti further notification.
JayDee
that must be one of those other operating systems that allows for a four-
letter extension, huh?
ahhh, multiline Cit on foreign operating systems
Greg Voss
ahhh multiline cit try setting mdata=1 mdata=2 in citadel.mesg file that tells modem to use com1 com2 should work huh richard
MontyL
The 14.4 main node was allocated 1200 Fore and Back, the 2400 vanity was set at 900 Fore and Back, and the temporary 'beat on it' node was set at 500 Fore and Back. There wasn't a heck of a lot left to do much else with on this 486SX/33, but heck, who can keep track of more, anyway? :)
Overall, they ran smoothly, with the two modem'd nodes capable of full-speed HS-Link transfers (at expected/average CPS). Reconfigging all three at once was sluggish, though.
John
Today I had this urge to hit .XS on a board I've never called before. .eXclude Shared rooms. I wish it worked.
pallida Mors
Actually it would be running under NOVELL DOS 7. It runs RENEGADE in a multinode capacity very well, but I keep running into problems because it requires the use of a FOSSIL driver (I'm using BNU right now), and I have to make the RENEGADE line one in the foreground, else it will not answer the line until the 4th ring. REALLY annoying...
I'm probably going to be dumping RENEGADE soon, and trying about every other system that I can, be they linear or not...
Blain Nelson
Some time ago Richard was talking about the hidden files in the temp path as being from when Cit shelled/supershelled and then crashed. It is my understanding that these files hold the information necessary for Cit to reload itself.
So does that mean that maybe Cit could check for those files when you do a -c and then either use them instead of reconfigging or just delete them so they aren't sitting there taking up hd space for nothing?
golden spud
JayDee> just because the node's address has a four character extension doesn't mean that the alias (which is defined in config.cit for your node and in nodes.cit for other nodes, and is different than the address) can't be only three characters.
At least I think that's what you were talking about.
I've thought of some neat ideas for a multi-node Cit. If the operating system supports multithreading, or if you have a multithreading library for DOS (which I have), you can cooperatively multithread each instance of Cit, and maintain a directory of interprocess communication files.
The first Cit that is started up can start it's own message daemon that runs in the background of that instance. As soon as the instance exits for some reason, if another instance that was started after it needs to write a message, it can just start it's own daemon, which will be used by the other instances using the interprocess communication.
The message daemon is simply something that saves messages to the messagebase and broadcasts messages to the other instances telling it to update the room totals if a user is online. It can do other msgbase writing functions as well. It provides a centralized method of writing to the messagebase and making the other instances aware of it.
Reading messages is a trivial and quick file locking process and doesn't need to be handled by a separate daemon. Besides, with file-based IPC, it wouldn't be very fast either.
Yes, I plan on implementing this someday. Shouldn't be too hard.
golden spud
(if anybody else wants to steal the idea, it's public domain)
Klint Demetrio
Hi, Fort Blatherskite in Shoreline uses FBS.SHR
Querry: I'm having trouble netting with a TurboCit board. The call would be successful and so would the login, but after it accepts the account it would pause then hang up on my board.
I think I might be using the wrong dragcit option but while I'm trying it I wondered if my node info for the board has something wrong.
Here it is.
#NODE "The BlackBoard" "Bothell"
#PHONE "485-9376"
#BAUD "2400"
#DIAL_TIMEOUT "30"
#LOGIN W "initials:" S "xxxx;nnnn"
#PROTOCOL "Zmodem"
#NETWORK "DRAGCIT1_1"
#GROUP "MatureNet" "MatureNet"
#ROOM "MatureNet" "MatureNet"
Thanks and have a good weekend.
MontyL
Boy, I wish I could remember, Ren... I turned mine on a long time ago...
One thing I had to add manually was the help info to the CTDL.MNU file (in #HELPPATH):
#filequeue
ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ»
º Queue Options: º
ÈÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ
A>dd file to queue
C>lear queue
D>ownload files in queue
L>ist files in queue
R>emove file from queue
If memory serves, I also had to turn Poop! on, using the line:
#POOP! "-1"
in CONFIG.CIT. There may be more, but that's a start...
Saint Bob
Help. After a net session I got a CMP_ERROR & it said Room Table Mismatch & now I can't get running. All I've done is ctdl -c three times with the result bad roomtable or error in roomtable or some such. What's the method of recovering with the least loss? I don't mind losing messages, I can net them back - what I don't want to loose is room/hallway and user data.
No I don't have backups. No room.
MontyL
Klint> One thing that jumps out of the page is that you don't have a carriage return on the #LOGIN (add \n to the end of the password...). Since I know diddley about DRAGCIT... I'll quit while I'm ahead! ;)
JayDee
I was talking about Greg Voss' reference to citadel.mesg file
it is actually the config.sys file that tells Cit which port is used
unless I am totally way-off base, MS-DOS doesn't allow for four-character
extensions in a filename, but hey, if I'm wrong, bop my booty a good-un...
Helix Quark
good god, just get the source for a MOO and then combine the CIT+ interface and the multi-user multi-line coding. the DB code it there for the asking.
Helix Quark
well, I'm running HPFS so I've got more than 8.4 ...
Mycophile
huh huh he said hard.
Klint Demetrio
Thanks Monty. (though I think I had taken it out when I pasted it without the nodes password, but I'll double check to make sure. Thanks)
Livia
no, it is actually the config.cit file
you idiot
John
If you plan on implementing it "some day", are you willing to bet some money?
Black Wolf
MontyL> you can't incorporate the message.dat file first, as you will recieve a cit internal error and crash the board again. This is because the net messages are pointing to rooms that at this time do not exist..
Its best to start with group.dat then room.dat before incorporating the msg.dat and if the room.dat is corrupted you still wont be able to incorporate the msg.dat, but that can be fixed by starting with no dat files and incorporating a large net pack that contains all the rooms. Then you can re-introduce Group.dat
St. Bob
Help!
Alpha Wolf
St.Bob: With what?!
MontyL
Klint> My mistake... use \r, not \n. Although \n might work, it's not the right one to use...
Brent Bottles
Yes, there is a missing character in the ;;mavencit in 64.2. Though it is wonderful that the ;;mavencit feature has a bug, it was one of the early fixes in 65.
The problem with netting with the TurboCit up there is indeed that there is no \r at the end of the login string.
If Fort Blatherskite ever starts netting, it should change its address to fbs.sea.
The biggest problem when it comes to implementing a mutli-line citadel is that i don't believe that it's worth the effort.
enable file queueing by adding a response-file download string to your #PROTOCOL command in EXTERNAL.CIT.
The alias part of an address may be as few as one character.
golden spud
John> keep nagging me about it, and you'll see a program sometime soon. But I'm not going to bet money on any aspect of the entire project.
When I get something interesting implemented I'll tell you about it and let you play with it. Then you can tell me how much it sucks and how I can make it better.
Helix Quark
bingo. the real reason.
Lab Rat
Cave Bear > I once found a Unix Citadel but erased it so long ago it's not even the same hard drive.
there are several unix cits on the net; however, my experience has been that they are primarily pieces of unholy [expletive deleted] and not even worth the trouble of logging in (in one of them you actually had to switch back and forth between message read and room movement "modes" and there were no .commands)
the one I had looked like it overlayed a citadel interface over a usenet news environment, and I suppose you could create local forums for local rooms.
Golden of Spudheads > Hmm it would be much much easier to simply have one message subprocess running before the multithread divergence and the same for a room subprocess and then have it diverge into as many user threads as you need.
or maybe I'm just completely full of shit.
and heck if I was doing it i'd make a citadel message daemon and a room daemon on unix and then just have a citsh for people who come for the citadel system to use after login.
but then we don't have init/pwd any more. or at least no ; separator.
JayDee
oh, yes, thanks for pointing that out to me, o sharp eyed dagger-tongued one
but, do I bleed?
not
raptor...
Helix Quark
CAVE BEAR, if you're going to run LINUX then why not just run a full featured MOO or MUD?
However, if you manage to find a UNIX cit let me know I'd be interesed in taking a look also.
Brent Bottles
I know that there has been at least one port of Citadel to a Unix platform. I do not know where you could find any, however.
It is beyond me how a Citadel would support korn shelling. Do you mean, "Does it support giving users shell access?"
The same with supporting vi. Do you mean, "Does it support using vi as a message editor?"
scorpio
saint bob: multiline cit for unix?
have you seen DOC (dave's own citadel)?
it sucks big time..
MontyL
Hmmm... Brent, I have _nothing_ like what you mention about the File Queue function in my EXTERNAL.CIT, yet it works just peachy. Strangeness, even.
St. Bob> Boy, how I wish I could help. The only thing I can offer is to tell you this much:
Copy all of the .DAT files over to a new directory, delete them from the Cit dir, and reconfig. The board will be gone, but at least you'll know whether you've got a glitch in the executable. Now, re-introduce the old .DAT files, one at a time, starting with the messagebase (MSG.DAT), then following with the room and hall files, reconfiguring after each new introduction. Do it methodically, and you will discover which file is the culprit. Once you find it, delete it, and reconfigure again to create a new copy. Hopefully, the board will come back completely, but, with luck, it will at least be 85% back to normal.
We call it "The Reconfig Dance" up here in Whatcom County. ;)
John
Sorry, Spud, I'm not your personal nagger. I only mention your vaporwear when you refer to it. Should you actually implement something--anything-- I'd be much more impressed with you than I currently am.
Alpha Wolf
Cave Bear:
archie -s -u "citadel" > archie.search &
Captain James T Kirk
the large (around 500k in my case) hidden files that show up in TEMPPATH are citadel's swap files... (when you do a supershell citadel moves itself out of RAM and onto disk...)... normally, when control of the machine is given back to citadel (via the EXIT command...) it moves itself back into RAM and deletes the temp file... but, if something strange happens while you're in the shell, that swap file will not get deleted...
Citadel can't really look for them and delete them, though... as they are given random (well, not really...but random enough) filenames... there's no way for citadel to know if the file is Citadel's swap file or some other program's file...
Cave Bear
Helix, > I am. :)
Brent, > Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Sorry I am not verbose.
Alpha Wolf & MontyL,,>> Thank you. :) :)
Cave Bear
Lab Rat,> Thanks for the info.
Ren
What speed should GremCit be reporting when you log on locally? I'm using a USR 14.4 modem, and I'm getting a report of 2400 when I ^AXcrX. I could have sworn that I was running faster than 2400...
Helix Quark
CAVE BEAR, what one are you using? I have a circleMUD that was ported to my os2 that I've been looking at but haven't had the time to re-compile it.
ZooKeeper
Saint Bob -- sympathy and commiseration, I just a week or two ago had to put mine back up "out of the box" three times to get the [deleted] thing working and configging right, and I did it exactly the same way all three times... <sigh> knock on wood it seems to be working fine now, except for one tiny little detail --
after netting, on occasion -- not with any particular board, but usually after a large transfer -- when building address it will continue adding numbers so that by the time it's finished building address I have a completed percentage of 1111110... any ideas anyone?
MontyL
Did I say MSG.DAT first? Guess I did...
"Oops". :/
golden spud
The Unix Cit's I've seen are exactly what Lab Rat said... they are just room-based front-ends to Usenet messages. BOOOOOOORING.
Lab Rat> I suppose I could do that, but my goal is to write it in such a way that multiple instances of SpudCit could be run anywhere -- on the same computer under a multitasker, or over a LAN -- and still be able to communicate and share the same messagebase.
If I were to target it for Linux, I would write it in a completely different way. I would probably figure out how to do some client-server shit or something real fun and media-hypish like that.
JayDee
I have seen that "building address" go into some massively high #s on 8-bit
machines only...
maybe someone from the Development Team will come in here, and clue us?
St. Bob
I got it back up... the reconfig dance, yes. Seemed to be the room and roompos .dat files that were skrewed. Reconfiged without'em, and it works fine as a BBS - but all users' msg pointers were reset, and I can't seem to get networking to work properly. Example: I set TAT's pointers to to 200 back from the top, and fetched, and no messages were fetched. And networking didn't pull in any messages either.
St. Bob
Funny... it had been working for so long without a bug that I had started to forget it was a citadel and consider it a perfectly well-written piece of software. :)
ZooKeeper
JayDee -- BookWorm just got a better one yet... after a massive net (after I was gone all weekend, etc...) his address zoomed to 1,111,111,100% ?????
I'd sure like to know what the flack's going on.
Torch Song
Glad to see you're back, Saint Bob.
We got burned at LNZ by the amazing disappearing room.dat file -- and by the amazing disappearing log files, too. Ouch. Y'know, backing up the essential *.dat files to a floppy doesn't take much time or room and it's a LOT less annoying than having to explain to all the users (individually...argh) why their accounts got deleted...
Saint Bob
I think it's back.
Megamol
I get messages sorta like that too sometimes after I re-config. Goes up to 1100% if I remember correctly.
MontyL
Check the net bit of one of the netted rooms, St. Bob. You may be (unpleasantly) surprised to find that it isn't netted any more...
Brent Bottles
the 111111111111111111111111111111111111111100% complete bug was a simple rounding problem. woop.
black wolf: are you sure that Citadel will error out if you delete your ROOM.DAT and reconfigure? The way it is designed (and the way it has always operated every time that I have tried it) is for it to rebuild ROOM.DAT from your MSG.DAT if you have MSG.DAT but not ROOM.DAT.
Ren: if you are logged on locally, then there is no connect rate to report, so Citadel just spews garbage. Most likely the speed of the last connection.
Richard Goldfinder
St. Bob: log in as the node, and check that each room you expect to send:
1) Is visible to the node. (Invited, not hidden, not excluded)
2) Is shared.
3) Has a Net ID.
4) Has its Net ID in the node's ROOMREQ file (if the ROOMREQ file exists).
Klint Demetrio
Thanks Monty.
Brent: It was fbs.sea a while back ago. (Hmm I suppose for communications sake I should change it back) : }
Still trying to net with Blackboard. (perhaps I should send them a copy of Gremcit)
Richard Goldfinder
Blain Nelson: the spawning system we're using doesn't allow usage of old spawned files. It would be dangerous to use them if anything significant had changed (e.g. size of a table).
It would be ill-behaved to erase them automatically when running the program. For all we know, another program could be using the same spawning library and putting temporary files in the same directory (perhaps another program in a task switching system, like DOSSHELL).
If you want them erased automatically, you should put the commands to do so in your AUTOEXEC.BAT.
MontyL: you don't need to crash out to see the swapfile, just super-shell out. Run "dir /ah /s \" if you're using MS-DOS 5.0 or later to see all of the hidden files on your drive.
Lab Rat
GS > Hey man, gotta be with the trend.
And actually, if you're going to be running it across a LAN you probably want the messagebase to be localized anyhow, in which case you'd want a messagebase-server program and then the user-interface ones running apart from it even more than if you were doing it out of unix.
client-server exists for a reason I guess.
Gravity
From a gopher (myself):
How does the read messages by date command work? I can't find the right date format to use.
Captain James T Kirk
You can reconfig a cit with only msg.dat... for many years citadel has had a function to re-create the room table from the message base... (it's been in there since at least DragCit 3.12...
all the rooms end up in maintenance... and the network bits are gone...but it's better then entering every room gain...
MontyL
Welcome back, Brent!
Supershelling...
Cool! No spawn files!
By DATE, Gravity? Hmmm...
Ren
Being a hub for two other boards here in California, how do I net certain rooms with Node1, and other rooms with Node2?
Richard Goldfinder
Gravity: type a question mark for general summary.
I was wondering why it wasn't working as well as the .SD command, and found out what are probably the two main differences between ANSI C's tm structure and Borland's date structure:
ANSI's January=0, Borland's January=1.
ANSI's 1980=80, Borland's 1980=0.
An incorrect conversion is occurring in the .R& command. Will be fixed (not now, I need some sleep).
Saint Bob
Ren: Use groups. Example: Groups "Node1-only", "Node2-only", and "Both".
Richard Goldfinder
I'm in error on the years. ANSI's 1980=80, Borland's 1980=1980.
Black Wolf
Brent> last time I crashed I lost my room.dat and roompos.dat files I deleted them and tried to reconfig, but recieved an internal error from cit as it couldn't figure out where to place the messages.. I had to incoporate a message pack in my trans path to recreate the rooms and then reconfig to get it running again... My observation before might not be totally correct but it was the only one I've experienced so far....
ZooKeeper
BW -- me too. don't worry, it's not just you, it's a cit thing. or at least a Whatcom County cit thing... <sigh>
MontyL
Ren> Group the rooms for each using #AUTOGROUP (as they come in and are newly created), or edit each of the rooms, adding the grouping.
Node1 - Access to Group1
Node2 - Access to Group2
Other - Access to both, unless you need to keep Node1 or Node2 rooms from getting up this way...
Gravity
I also had a crash in which I lost both room.dat and roompos.dat files and tried to reconfig. It wouldn't so, I did it the hard way and hex-edited my msg.dat to figure out what my rooms were, and then had to mark and insert all the messages into their proper rooms.
Of course, I got bored of that really quickly, so I just deleted my msg.dat file and told my users to just suffer (and I was running Gremcit /064 at the time....). I tried several times to reconfig, and it failed each time before I decided to go about it the long way.
Freejack
Citadel/UX looks quite a lot like a normal cit... whatever that is...
the Uncensored BBS in NY runs it and i have the source available here...
i also have Unidel source here, but that isn't, well it's different i guess...
Blubard
Vege-beaters?
Helix Quark
Cit/UX is available FTP QUARTZ.RUTGERS.EDU \pub\QUARTZ.BY.TOPIC\quartz\citadel
and quartz does dotcmds the way I suggested they be done for gremcit.
John
SOD nets successfully with The Raft only one in every four or so times. Sometimes it hangs the machine when entering HSLINK, but more often it just fails to transmit and receive. I'm going to stop netting with The Raft for a while, and see if the problem decides to go away.
Livia
that's just richard's peace of shit modem
Brent Bottles
A Public Test Release of Citadel+/065 is available from The Raft in the Citadel + Apps room in the Root hall.
Brent Bottles
A Public Test Release of Citadel+/065 is available for download in Citadel+ Download (the lobby) on The Anticlimactic Teleservice.
Helix Quark
OH MY GOD!
livia made a MALAPROP!
mark your calendars everyone!
JayDee
wow
I'll have to mark it on Schedule+
GorgonZolA SlinKy
malaprop?
JayDee
Livia make a mistake?
sickening concept...
if such a thing was to occur, who knows what else might happen
horrid
just horrid...
Livia
it couldn't have been a deliberate goltarism
half the fun is watching everyone get excited because they think i've made a mistake
Helix Quark
oh, she's so cute when she's covering her tracks.
(((ack)))
Lab Rat
Ah, here's a bug / improperly configured feature (not enough energy to look for the second case, but it's weird enough it's not likely)
my cursor is no longer following along where I type like it should. Indeed, the only things that move it are anything that happens when I shell to dos, or the ctrl-f6 menu, both of which when I go back to regular citadel leave the cursor sitting where they last used it, and it just sits there. Just weird.
re gesWDÍ vUS/e in sex40e
65 Test Release Notes:
ctdl -g
produced help files in cuessve
Ketamine
65 Test Release Notes:
ctdl -g
produced help files in current directory rather than checking
the existence of #helppath (or whatever)
was forced to delete the existing v64 ctdl.dat in order to run 65
non-reproducable semi-random system crash under win31 (will check more)
new, internal functionality should take precedence and default to old, external functions. ie. .dw (well, I haven't tried it, but according to my read through the doc.
Ketamine
Has the userlog edit been changed?
In order to enter mci in my name I had to:
change name to buttsucker
logout
login
change name to mci
because otherwise I got "we already have a x"
Livia
yes, that's been changed
cit won't let there be two accounts with the same name anymore
Alpha Wolf
hmm... dis-regard my message in announcements. :)
Lab Rat
I too have experienced the Citadel System Hang.
2 times: upon pressing ctrl-c (under W4W3.11, DOS 6.22 on a DriveSpace drive) after exiting from citadel and (surprisingly) returning to norton commander, which was running in a dosshell and from which I had called cit, it hangs.
also, when ctdl -g gets done with it's spasmodicity and prints "done." it hangs. under w4w on a drivespace drive, and also not, and also running straight dos. all under norton commander which shouldn't be a problem. (one interesting note: when under w4w, the buffering doesn't get a chance to write the files to the disk; indeed, scandisk turns up no errors. whereas running straight unbuffered dos on a 'real' (non drivespace) drive, it manages to write all the helpfiles before hanging)
and then there is the already-reported cursor weird-out.
John
Would it hurt anything if I switched back to 64? The reason is, debug mode is much more verbose now than it was before. Unfortunately, I have to run in debug mode because networking only succeeds with Slumberland when I'm in debug mode.
So will switching back cause any problems?
Brent Bottles
Lab Rat, I just sent a #debug net 6.9 command to the laboratory. I'll have more to say when i get a response. (which will be in two nets.)
Ketamine, CTDL -g is supposed to create the help files in the current directory. I know that it was documented to go to #HELPPATH once, but I thought the documentation got fixed. I'll look. (It goes to the current directory so that it doesn't have to load CONFIG.CIT and do lots of other poop. If you want the output in another directory, switch to that directory then run CTDL.EXE by specifying a full path.)
Yes, you would need to delete the existing CTDL.DAT to run 065. You should have gotten some sort of error message saying that CTDL.DAT was the wrong version if you didn't. Did you? I'll make a note of it in the 64TO65.DOC file.
I don't quite understand what you are saying about the .Download... command. As the .Download... command is completely dependent on your PROTOCOL.CIT, there are no defaults. (Unless you are creating a new system, in which case a default PROTOCOL.CIT is created.) If you want to use the internal file transfer protocols even if they are not set up in PROTOCOL.CIT, use the .Enter With protocol upload... and .Read With protocol download...
And yes, there does appear to be a slight bug in .Sysop Userlog edit when you are editing yourself and changing your name. If you change it to other than it was when you started, you will not be able to change it back to what it was when you started. (Note that the equality check ignores color codes, so you can change colors around all you want without encountering the bug.)
That is:
Sysop function: Userlog Edit
Enter who [Brent Bottles]:
Editing user Brent Bottles.
Pick user privileges option to edit: Name
Enter new name [Brent Bottles]: poopie
Pick user privileges option to edit: Name
Enter new name [poopie]: Brent Bottles
We already have a Brent Bottles.
Pick user privileges option to edit:
As this uses the same code as the Privileges (.) option of the .Enter Configuration command, the same problem exists there, too. (The current user must be a Sysop to use the Privileges option of the .Enter Configuration command.)
However, you can use .Enter Name with no problems. (The current user must be a Sysop to change more than the color and case of his name with the .Enter Name command, just as before.)
Brent Bottles
Lab Rat, when did you press the Control+C? While Citadel was running? As it was exiting ("Preparing to exit..." and all that)? After returning to Norton Commander? After it hung? And why did it strike you to press Control+C? (This not to try to track down the problem, but out of curiosity.)
Lab Rat
Brent >
I pressed control-c once for a reason I don't remember, and another time because I wanted to peruse the .s> output but I ran out of time and didn't want to leave citadel running, and the other times to make sure that yes indeed it was causing the system to hang.
I have yet to hit control-c from dos, or from the citadel version that is NOT running on my drivespace drive (I copied it over to check ctdl -g...)
Brent Bottles
John: No, switching back will cause no problems.
What happens when you network with Slumberland with debug mode turned off? Have you tried it with 65? Have you thought about making a script that turns Debug mode on, networks with Slumberland, then turns Debug mode back off, and sticking that in CRON.CIT instead of the plain network event?
JayDee
there is no significance behind ;;mavencit
SpudCit whoops it's butt, too
John
Brent: I'm not against making a script. When I net with Slumberland, it doens't seem to log in. But it's hard to tell what's happening, without debug mode on.
GremCit Bugs> _