Gay/Lesbian Forum>

Dr. Pink
Good going Chris. It is so nice to have another Shaych here with me. Why don't you post when "...Idaho" will be playing at the Capitol Theater. Okay?? Gosh this room is as dead as the day I had Steve and Lucas make it. Geeez...
Roya
haha "go figure" -deadman
Chris the Shaych
I saw "My Own Private Idaho" last night. Very good movie. I was a little bit disapointed that it wasn't more... explicit... I would've been happy had they even shown River and Keanu kissing, but, oh, well. It was five dollars and show times are at 6:30 and 9:00. Go see it!!
Isis
River Pheonix isn't gay (I don't think) he probably would have had difficulty doing a love seen with another man realistically...it probably would have ended up really fake looking anyway.
Spur
I wouldn't know about that. I mean, actors make love to people they hardly know all of the time. If Phoenix got over his own homophobia and could act as if he was in love with Keanu, then he could do a realistic one. And Chris is right. It's as if the producers decided that kissing would be too explicit if they were gay. just evidence of homophobia in america. if it was a love story about a man and a woman, would it have been possible to not show them making out, if not screwing?
stderr
Maybe he just didn't want to kiss another guy. Geez, I know I wouldn't want to do it. I mean, guys are disgusting. I should know, I am one.
Sassy 1
A lot of girls are really digusting too.....
Rapper
Gosh Sassy, just stick up for us (WOMEN) now...
Spur
well, it's not as if they don't make out with people they probably consider disgusting a lot anyways, you know? that's what actors end up doing. you think they like screwing in front of cameras and stage crews? Okay, so maybe michelle pfeifer ain't so bad, but there's others...
stderr
Come to think of it, kissing is just disgusting. Let's make a law....
Isis
What I ment was, he might not have been comfortable with the idea, and while he COULD have done it, it probably wouldn't have come across very well. I mean spur, could you make out with a guy and make it look convencing?
Isis
kissing, in general, is not discusting.
Cthulhu
I don't think we will see much same sex necking in the movies for a while. Remember that such displays are still illegal in several states...not to mention those stupid "control your sex life" laws.
stderr
No, it's disgusting.....
Steve Baxter
There are movies of love without kissing or other explicit scenes. Those movies usually become classics. They are able to convey to the veiwers the feelings without the explicit scenes. But it takes good acting and a good director. I think it's especially the director.
Rapper
Your right, the movies don't need that much explisit scenes and all those notty words, because the littsee those things. And I think my dad was right, when he said that it takes good actor and directors to make a good movie.
Sassy 1
I happen to enjoy kissing a great deal.... Whoever YOU are kissing, stderr, doesn't know much about it if you think it's disgusting.
Chris the Shaych
Gee, I opened up quite the can o' worms. Has anyone else seen it? There were about three weird Capital students behind me when I saw it. Where any of you them?
Spur
Yeah, kissing's... hmm, i guess nice is the right word. There's probably plenty of romance movies without explicit scenes, but i expect most of them have at least one kiss. I can't think of one without even a kiss. Take "The Princess Bride". They managed to get away with only one kiss in that one, but it was more than just a romance... but, i'm rambling. isis, i couldn't realistically act like i was in love with a guy, so i doubt that i could kiss him with passion. but that's because i'm not an actor! phoenix is. in the movie (i assume) he acted like he was in love. if he can do that, i expect he could kiss the guy too.
Steve Baxter
The Princess Bride came to my mind too. Yes, they did kiss. I don't remember a kiss in "A Man and a Woman." Maybe I just don't remember it, though. I think they usually kiss in movies of "Romeo & Juliette", "West Side Story", and "The Taming of the Shrew" ("Kiss Me, Kate."). The theatre productions usually don't have even a kiss. Yet they are much more powerful. I think a good actor could kiss someone passionately. I would hope it was the director's choice rather than an actor's personal decision. The director may have wanted to deliver a more subtle message. Maybe he was attempting to focus on love and downplay the sensual, physical aspects.
stderr
Think about it. All that slobber and stuff. Yuk. No kissing without tongue condoms.
Spur
That sounds good to me, steve.
Sassy 1
Geezzz.... stderr, how old ARE you? Tongue condoms?? Interesting.....
Isis
stderr, have you ever kissed anyone?
stderr
Geez, how old am I.... First I was 55 and now you think I'm about 7. Well, I went to the MUD thing so everyone should have some clue how old I am.
Steve Baxter
He's younger than I, but older than my daughters. We watched "Dances with Wolves" last night and tonight. (Half each night. It's a long movie.) The only thing I would rather not have seen was the short scene together in the Teepee. But maybe I'm just being too idealist. All in all, it is one of the best movies I've ever watched.
Spur
that's good. but it was wee bit commercial for me even.
stderr
Commercials? He watched it on a tape, spurt.
Spur
what are you talking about, bill?
Roya
i never saw that movie.
Captain James T Kirk
It's good... I liked it..
stderr
READ THE THREAD SPUR!!!!! x
Sassy 1
I wasn't at the MUD you were at stderr, at least, not to my knowledge.... So, how old are you, or is that too personal?
Captain James T Kirk
I think he's 20-30 something...
stderr
25
Cthulhu
I think that gay relationships will not be portrayed realistically in films untill the film makers and theaters start ignoring the loonie censorship nuts who rate films. "Oh no...we can't have nudity...that would be...unnatural...".
Chris the Shaych
To change topics: Has ANYONE else read ANYTHING by Mercedes Lackey? I somtimes feel like the oonly one...
stderr
Well, Cthulhu, it does seem a bit "unnatural" to have two or more people naked on top of eat other halfway faking like they are fucking and not even caring about the other person at all. Doesn't that make sex less valuable?
Spur
I don't see you objecting to it in cases of heterosexual-based movies, bill.
stderr
Object, object, object. I don't care what people do, if that's what they want to do. I was really talking about hetrosexual movies. I've never seen anything gay like I'm talking about. I just think we need to have more value in sex in our movies if we expect kids to put value in the sex that they have.
Sassy 1
I'm impressed.
Spur
Then fine, i applaud you.
stderr
And BTW, that goes for expecting adults to put more value in their sex. Of adults should know better but what can you expect when you see all that? (This is what several of the teenagers on that ABC AIDS program were saying too.)
Cthulhu
I agree that a more mature role of sexuality in motion pictures is a good idea. I find movies with lots of sex and no plot to be a real bore. On the other hand, our sexuality is a very important part of our lives, and the old movie method of pretending that nobody ever makes love is unrealistic and silly.
stderr
I don't think they pretended it didn't happen, they just didn't feel the need to show it happen.
Chris the Shaych
Or even mention that it existed.
Spur
i think they pretended that it didn't happen. the problem is that things these days are too damn gratuitous. if you want to go see a porno, then fine, go see one. but it's not necessary to make a movie have sex in it just to sell. it seems as if everything is oriented towards selling. but i guess that's just the way it is.
stderr
I agree with that Spur. If we want a porno movie, we'll get one. If we want something with taste well search around and maybe find it.
Spur
hmmmm. it's sort of like, porn is discouraged so instead people get off on acceptable porn, aka popular movies.
deadman
kissing is horribly gross, but i like it anyway. in the case of kissing in "...idaho", i believe it was the director's choice not to have any. i forget the director's name, but he's gay, and probably quite sensitized to his own sense of moral decency. personally, i find most "love" scenes in movies boring or silly, or both. but then again, there's the old "show-don't-tell" of writing, something that seems to be at least partially true in screenplay writing as in story writing. i'm gonna see "...idaho" tomorrow night (show starts 9pm). i'll be able to pass final, lofty judgment then. and if you're interesting in finding out more about homophobia in hollywood, read "the celluloid closet". interesting stuff.
deadman
and hey...i saw "the butcher's wife" the other day. awful film. i was surprised to see the inclussion of a lesbian couple in the story line. however, they were two-dimensional, as were all the other characters in the movie. oh well. at least they were portrayed in a neutral/understanding fashion. maybe next movie.
Sassy 1
Why are there so many people in here who think kissing is "Horrible?" What's so horrible about it? I enjoy kissing immensely, and I'm confused as to why other people would not think it enjoyable! Ah, well..... To each his own.
stderr
cause it's just sick, sick, sick!
Cmdr. Scott
If you look at kissing from a biological stand point, I could see how it is sick. But if you would stop being scientists, and look at as a growing closer, a joing of spirits, then it is a wonderful avenue. The problem that most males encounter is that they don't put their minds to kissing. The are worried about half a million other things, and fail to worry about the person on the other side of those lips. Kissing really changed for me when I learned to kiss with my whole self, instead of just my lips.
stderr
sick, sick, sick!
Cthulhu
So, has anyone been following the story in Texas? The courts have declaired their sodomy laws unconstitutional but the good old boys in office refuse to listen to the courts.
Sassy 1
Sigh.......
stderr
Cthulhu, why should you be so surprised that some people would consider homosexual sex wrong? Are you trying to dicriminate against a religious group?
Chris the Shaych
I always thought that Texas was kinda screwed. Oh, well. With any luck I'll be living in Oklahoma soon. Hey, deadman!! The name is Gus van Sant.
Spur
bill, i don't understand what you're trying to say. what is the relationship between the first and second sentence in the above message? cthulhu is obviously not trying to discriminate against any religious group. the only parallel that i see possible to be drawn is that he therefore should not discriminate against people based on their sexual preference. but that is already the case, and i doubt that's what you're trying to say, bill. please explain. it is not surprising that some people consider homosexual sex wrong. i see people like that every day. but is it right to pass laws about it? fuck no. (emphasis added)
Spur
Oh, and btw, i thoroughly enjoy kissing.
stderr
Spur> Whom? Scorp> Basically this is an attack on the moral values and beliefs of Christains. Christains have the RIGHT not to agree with homosexual behaviour and the RIGHT not to hire or rent to people who are homosexual for RELIGIOUS reasons. We bend over backwards for every other religion but Christains. Certainly they should have the same rights as the rest.
Cthulhu
Stderr....you are very wrong and uninformed. Rental agreements and hiring people in a company are two areas where it is very illegal to not do something for religious reasons. There are laws preventing this and people get in big trouble all the time. Have you ever heard the phrase "equal opportunity employer"? That does include religion. God you are so ignorant.
stderr
Cthulhu> I guess it's OK for you to hold your strange opinions about whatever but whenever someone disagrees with you, you just call them ignorant. Well, grow up, some people have brains and can see that liberalism sucks. Hell, most everyone in this country except you thinks it sucks. If a KKK member doesn't want to hire or rent to a Black person, who the hell are you to tell them what they can or cannot do? This is a free fucking country and it's about damn time you and the left let people be free.
Spur
hell, what we got here is a real simple value discrepancy between two sides, one of them represented by cthulhu, one by bill. my own beliefs side more with cthulhu, if you haven't noticed. but no amount of argument is gonna solve this. bill obviously believes in nearly complete freedom (unless homosexuals are mentioned, in which case laws against sodomy are completely justified). i, on the other hand, am going for the happiness of as many people as possible and freedom as a close second. i believe cthulhu thinks this way also. and there isn't any way to prove that either way of thinking is better or worse.
Sassy 1
If we're going to get into a philosophical discussion, then i'll just say this: What is REALLY going on here, people? There are laws that say "Equal job opportunities, but that's bullshit. If someone wants to hire a man because they think he can do a better job than a woman, then they will. The same goes for homosexuals or blacks. People are just more subtle these days. Also, everyone has their own beliefs, and everyone has their own level of maturity. I, personally, don't think we should get miffed just because someone else states an opinion we don't agree with. I also thing we shouldn't Take insults so personally. (Ahem.) I rest my case.
stderr
Spur> There are at least as many Christains in this country as their are homosexuals. And while I'm not sure what "sodomy" means in this case, I don't see how we can have laws against it. That's not my point. My point is that the values of one group shouldn't be FORCED on the other group. This goes for homosexual values as well as Christain values. I've had this debate on the Fishers of Men bbs and in that case I was telling the Christains that they had no right to FORCE their beliefs on others either.
Shane
stop it, I'm getting sweaty.
Cthulhu
It is the nature of law, that the values of one group are always forced on another. Murder is not considerd wrong by some people. They do it for sport. Should we allow them to do it because they have rights too? Or rape? 1/3 of our children are raped before they are 18. A lot of people seem to like it so should that be legal? My point is that laws are about basic moral concepts that are common to most people. Those basics are Life Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness (in the USA). Everyone has the right to these things (and all the things in the bill of rights) so long as they don't tread on anothers right. We have an amendment that guarentees equality by race, and another that guarantees freedom of religion. In this country most people concure that your rights stop when my nose begins...which means you cannot do things that effect me negatively anywhere but your own private time and home (and sometimes not even then). It all comes down to where you want it to stop. We can't let everyone do everything that they want to in the name of freedom. That is called anarchy, and it enforces rul by the cruel, immorale and the strongest.
stderr
Well, I thought it was the Law of Nature, but anyway.... since you agree that one side will force its views on the other, why do you freak out so when Christains try to force their views on, say, homosexuals and then love it when the reverse is true? Could it be that you are a hypocrite?
Scorpion
Bill> You should chek your facts before you start rambling on about christians not supporting homosexuality. True, while some denominations oppose homosexuality, others support it. The Methodist church has no problems with homosexuality and I'm sure there are other Christian denominations that support homosexuality.
stderr
Scorpion, there are many fring leftwing Christain groups that support a lot of things. There are more catholics than anyone and as far as I know, they don't think so much of homosexuality.
Spur
It is true that we already enforce american values (through laws) that I can guess everyone here thinks should be enforced. Are we going to legalize murder because some people want to perform it? No. We enforce an american set of values over those people and prevent them from killing people. Yes bill, maybe i'm hippocritical for not believing in the legalization of murder.
stderr
What's your point, Spur? I think your problem is that you are happy to have tons of laws and all that as long as they agree with what you think.
Scorpion
Bill> you need some laws other wise you have total anarchy.
Companion
after reading all this.. I am wondering .. just why does religion have to conflict with sexual preference? One is a 'earthly' thing and the other a 'heavenly' thing.... and tho I am neither homosexual or religious it would seem to me that religious folk are STILL trying to make every one live they way they want... they interfered with govt a few hundred years ago.. and now our laws prohibit that to an extent.. now they are working to 'outlaw' any form of life style that they don't approve of... how about all the 'different' lifestyle folk get togeather and try to do something about it.. not outlaw religion but make the line between church/state so rigid and precise that it is illegal for one to cross to the other in any attempt to influence... like no church/religion sponsored lobbiests even.. .things like that
Spur
Yup, bill, it's true. I'm happy to have tons of lawas and all that as long as they agree with what i think. But so are you.
Spur
Aren't there like 80 different sub-denonimations of protestant? i thought so...
stderr
Scorpion> If you aren't Catholic, you are Protestant. (I would consider the Church of England to be Catholic although they don't think so) You have forgotten about all the fundamentalist Christain denominations. They certainly oppose homosexuality and abortion and all that stuff.
Steve Baxter
There was a large group in Seattle area called GLU. Gays and Lesbians of Unity. I have a friend who was very big in GLU. He had found a place where he really felt good and was one of the music leaders for Unity Church in Seattle. Then Unity's headquarters got wind of what was happening. In a short time, GLU was dissolved and all the happiness, joy, and togetherness was scattered to the winds....
Steve Baxter
Unity is far from what is called "fundamentalist". Unity is very liberal. In fact, fundamentalists consider Unity Church to be "not Christian"!
stderr
Whether you agree with fundamentalists or not, Scorpion, they are a group that doesn't approve of homosexuality and is Christain and is actually quite large.
Sassy 1
Boo hoo.
Blade Runner
Whatever makes a person happy, just as long as it doesn't hurt others...
stderr
I looked back at my message, Scorp. I said "The Christains". Would you have prefered 99% of the christians? In general christians don't approve of homosexuality. Of course, THAT wasn't my point. My point was that it seems OK to have homosexuals force whatever viewpoint they have on everyone else while the christians (who don't like homosexuality) don't have that right.
stderr
That's crazy. Everyone should be able to lobby for what they want to happen. How could you tell the difference between religion and non-religion, anyway? Simply you can't.
Mystearia
This may sound really stupid but there are Christians that are hetrosexual that don't care really about those that are homosexual..I know that my youth group used the famous quote each to its own when this subject was brought up..although we were shunned by the olders in the church ... but in this day and age I don't think it matters..as long as a person is happy
Isis
everyone has religion & believes in something, even if it's just themselves.
Rapper
I guess that true, but the guestion I want to ask is: how many religions are there.
Blade Runner
infinite...
stderr
So maybe we CAN'T seperate state and religion. Certainly not in the way some people above were claiming we should.
Shane
everybody has their own religion, as isis said, even if it's belief in themselves as a personal god, but then that makes your mind a church... and since when did the state care about what was on our minds? we already have separation of church and state.
Blade Runner
Your mind a church, what a different concept...
stderr
Certainly some forms of humanism are religions. The whole idea of morals comes from the culture and religion of a society. If we disallow all that in our government is it any wonder we have all the bad things happening there?
Cthulhu
Seperation of church and state is supposed to keep the government from creating an official church or only representing one point of view. Religious and non-religious people alike have certain moral ideas that are common. These are what we should base our laws on, not silly things about what books are "anti-christian" (some have been banned for that reason). Also. The Church of England and the Episciple church DO consider themselves catholic, as does the greek orthodix church. They just are not ROMAN catholic.
Isis
I was baptised Episciplain, it's considered the U.S. version of Anglican Catholic, which is basicly the Church of England... there are only a few differences.
Scorpion
Getting rid of all religion in goverment. Well, there goes the Pledge of Alleigence, the Declaration of independance. All the names of the days and months. Our year is based in A.D. which translated means "year of our lord", swearing people in on a Bible...etc. Makes sense\to me
Shane
our calendar has nothing to with the state though.. they follow it just like everyone else, but they didn't make it. it's practicality there.
Cthulhu
Your still not getting the idea...the government is not supposed to support religion, andy religion. If the people want to support a religion that is their own business, but govenment gets very dangerous when it goes into the religion business.
stderr
HOMOSEXUAL A person who is attracted sexually to members of his or her own sex. The apostle Paul listed homosexuals among "the unrighteous" who would not inherit the kingdom of God <1 Cor. 6:9>, and declared that God's wrath stands against such behavior, whether practiced by men or women . (from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary) (Copyright (C) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (KJV) Rom 1:26 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. (KJV) 1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders (NIV) Rom 1:26 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (NIV) 1 Cor 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, (ASV) Rom 1:26 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. (ASV)
stderr
That was for you Scorpion..... It appears to be rather negitive toward homosexuality. What do you think it says?
Isis
quotes out of context mean little...i will, however look some of those up tonight in the Revised Standard Version, It's possible a 1986 bible was written by a homophobe.
Companion
it is kinda wierd tho folks.. when you think of it.. you know what area of the world is one of the most accepting of Homosexuality?... Think middle east
stderr
Isis> If you want the entire chapter in the three versions I put those piece in, just ask. But I'm a little tired of "it's out of context" everytime I quote something people don't like.
Sassy 1
I think you didn't understand what Isis was trying to say.
Rapper
Neither did I?
Spur
i just checked the context in my little home bible (yes, we have a lot of books around the house) and it looks like it's pretty accurate for the context of the statement. I agree with bill: let's stop crying "out of context!" every time anybody quotes anything without a life story behind it. as for religious/moral/humanistic bases of government: our government was based upon natural law (and to some extent some religions, as references to God are made everywhere). Nobody ever said that the government was consistent. But we have through the gov't documents laid out a basic morality that is fairly simple. Seperation of church and state means that the government shouldn't tread on moral decisions beyond that basic morality, i guess. (i admit i'm no historian though).
stderr
Sassy> People yell "that's out of context" whenever they see something quoted. I read the stuff around it and it doesn't seem so. I've heard rumors that there are other places in the bible talking about homosexuality, but I don't know where they are.
Sassy 1
I agree with you, especially when you're talking about the bible. Those damn (sorry if you are one, anybody) Jahova Witness people really piss me off. They come to our door with a small child so that we can't turn them away, and then proceed to tell us a lot of junk that isn't even IN the bible. Sigh......
stderr
Whether the bible is true or not, it would help to at least not make up stuff and say it's in it. I think the JW's have their own version of the bible with a bunch of stuff changed. That just seems so unfair.....
Scorpion
I have a friend who tells JW's that he's been a satan worshiper for 12 years and he seriously doubts that they can change his mind. He say they get out of there REAL quick. Bill> People also interpreted th bible to say racism was good. The original white settlers in South Africa used Biblical justification for keeping Blacks out of goverment. I will admit that from the verses quoted, homosexuality is a sin. However, I'd be willing to bet that there's some verses in there that say almost the opposite. If only any of us were biblical scholars...
stderr
Well, I just used a computer program to find those. If there are others, let's find them. Note, of course, that it also says that any sex outside of marriage is a sin too.....
Sassy 1
Ask my dad. He's a biblical scholar. No, I'm not kidding.
Captain James T Kirk
Steve dose everything...
Blade Runner
Just tell the JW's that you are an atheist(is that the right word, I think so). They leave quickly too. That's what my friend does...
stderr
Tell them you are Jeffery Domer and you would like to have them over for supper....
Companion
that is spelled Dahlmer :)
Isis
just because the bible says something is a sin doesn't make it necessarily bad though, the bible was writtin in one time, obviously some of it will not apply now...I personally don't think someone will go to hell for sex before marrage, but the bible say's it's a sin (btw, I don't believe in hell anyway), by that most homosexual activity would be a sin anyway, because very few actually get married...
stderr
We weren't talking about whether Bible was true or not or whether Hell existed. The question was what does the Bible have to say about homosexuality.
Scorpion
Those passeges could be intrepreted as no homoesexual sex before marrige. After 2 homosexuals get married though....
Monty
that's Dahmer :)
Companion
that is if you can trust the bible.. remember that it has been edited to fit the ideas of what the 'ruler' of the time decided was best.. and if any christian out there thinks it hasn't been.. well live on in delusion
Roya
hehe
stderr
Ok, you are God. You have to decide that one of these three people must die. One, Burt Parks who used to sing that stupid song at that beauty contest thing. Two, Art Linkletter, that guy who is always trying to sell those stupid folding chair things on late night TV. And, three, Jeffery Dahmer. I know that this is a very tough choice. Think about it for a while if you must.
Captain James T Kirk
OKay, i've thought about it... And i've chosen art... I hate those commercials..
Spur
The bible is interpreted in thousands of different ways, and every denominaation calls others that interpret it differently as being non-christians. Thousans of times have I been told that Catholics or Mormons or Columbus or whatever weren't christian.
Carlos Puit
one of the appostles was gay,well no gay,he was a roman and had an apprentice one of the this he had to teach him was sex and the only way to go about it between to men is well obvious.
stderr
Mormons do have their own version of the bible. Catholics just use a regular Bible. Mormons are not a different denomination of christain.
Mystearia
I don't get it..why worry about if someone is gay...they are people aren't they ?? that is all that matters
Morrissey
Carlos is doing biblical "outing" I tend to agree it is somebodies own business if they are gay. No big deal. Well I guess this is the appropriate area to ask this: Has anyone seen My own private Idaho?
Sassy 1
Aaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!
Spur
Nevertheless, they consider themselves Christian.
Companion
Catholics aint' really christains.. they are just a splinter sect of Jews
stderr
Being fair to the Bible people, there are groups that are looking for the earliest versions of the Bible to find out exactly what it originally said. Some groups would be happy to just say that the Bible has changed over time so therefore they can make it say anything they choose.
Scorpion
Bill> Actually, the Mormons have 2 bibles. The normal one other religions use and then their own.
Steve Baxter
Morrissey> We just had a review of My Own Private Idaho in this room about a month ago.
stderr
Cause Joseph Smith got the second Bible while walking around in the desert of SouthWest American, right?
Spur
sure, why not?
stderr
I don't know why not. I wasn't there. I was just trying to show you that I'm intelligent.
Morrissey
But where do you think the other Christian churchs evolved from?
ETHAN WALKER
drahciR ereG.......pmuwguM "deen I yas erom?"
Scorpion
Don't ask me, I'm not a religious historian. Ya just pick up things here and there
Spur
oh. oh yeah. that you are. i guess.
stderr
I guess too. That's why I have lots of answers without looking anything up.
Spur
i've got the same thing. the doctor prescribed prozac.
Lightning
This should be in Religion, right? And he was given the second one, called the "Book of Mormon," while walking around in a forest in upstate New York...
Oyra
Did you know that if you go the the King James version of the Bible, and look up the 36 (not sure about the number, i'll check later) Psalm, and count 36 words down, you get the word Shake, and if you count 36 words from the bottom, you get the word Spear... and you put those together, voila! hehe... They say that maybe Shakespeare helped write the Bible, at the same age, 36. Pasha and I looked it up, and it is there...
Gay/Lesbian Forum> _