Sysop Forum>
Starcrow
That's Sysops for ya!
JoAnne
I had a thought (so I guess the other one won't die of lonliness after all)
about this Tacoma/Seattle sysop 'thingy.'
When the BBS community started in full swing in the early 80's, it was
dreadful, particularly for women. We were called dirty names - and that
was tame compared to some of the things said. Except for a very few, it
was Twit Board City in Seattle.
Then, gradually, more boards, with more mature sysops came into being
and that phase was over. Fine. Then began the Sysop War games. And lemme
tell ya (and any veteran can vouch for this) -- the fight we are seeing in
here is peanuts compared to the horrible things that were said (and done)
to people in the community. There were assaults, physical and mental, and
even one suicide.
Now, Seattle has settled down and is known as one of the best BBS
communities in the country, if not the world. But we had to go through a
lot of crap first. So we have paid our dues.
That is NOT to say that Tacoma is any less worthy of total BBS-ship, but
it seems that y'all are in the painful growing stages. If you get ticked
off by the apparent arrogance of a Seattle user, ignore it. If we come
across as overly helpful and it seems patronizing, consider the source. If
we complain about your growing pains try to remember that we forgot we
were there once. :-)
Angela Davis
Many of the Tacoma Citadel sysops have been users, co-sysops, and sysops on other boards (including room systems) for up to five or more years. For five or more years, Kaptain K Mart has harassed other sysops. Please don't think Tacoma has no history. This, too, is Seattle-centrism.
Twoflower
suicide? this is one I've yet to hear about...
Saphyre
Oh, heck Tacoma and Seattle have been fighting over who's best before computers were more than a fantasy...take a look at alittle Seattle history
JoAnne
Something else that used to happen, and happens a little more infrequently
now, is that when a person got his/her board up and going there seemed to be
a god complex in the works. Ah, such power, over so many people. :-) But,
for the most part, your basic mature sysop has gotten past that stage and is
generally helpful, wants his/her board to run for the sake of communication,
sharing of information, etc. Those pipsqueaks who still live under the
delusion that they are somehow at the top of their own imaginary ladder
eventually either die a natural death (their boards, that is) or they grow
up.
Any, any veteran remember the computer wars? And the Spam nonsense? :-)
Starcrow
I don't think that was very cool, Grendel. If you had had a legitimate problem with Mucous, then fine, but that sort of childish crap is what started this whole thing.
Twoflower
JoAnne's post does sound awfully patronizing.
Joe Carrasquillo
The Lady is simply making a comment based on personal experience.
Mucous
I know about the history. There is no question. The city of Seattle is a better city. The people are pretty much the same, either way, though.
Yes, you saw Pitbull Terrier in this room. Pitbull Terrier is a sysop on my board. Pitbull Terrier and Angela Davis are the same.
Kaptain K Mart
She was just joking around. Harassing systems for five years? That is
total BS. I can get many people to back me up on this. I'm one of the
more contributive users of a BBS. Before people go off and make such statements like that I'd like to hear their justification.
Kaptain K Mart
She was just joking around. Harassing systems for five years? That is
total BS. I can get many people to back me up on this. I'm one of the
more contributive users of a BBS. Before people go off and make such statements like that I'd like to hear their justification.
Kaptain K Mart
She was just joking around. Harassing systems for five years? That is
total BS. I can get many people to back me up on this. I'm one of the
more contributive users of a BBS. Before people go off and make such statements like that I'd like to hear their justification.
Kaptain K Mart
She was just joking around. Harassing systems for five years? That is
total BS. I can get many people to back me up on this. I'm one of the
more contributive users of a BBS. Before people go off and make such statements like that I'd like to hear their justification.
Kaptain K Mart
This the kinf of attitude most users have to put up with in Tacoma.
Kaptain K Mart
This the kinf of attitude most users have to put up with in Tacoma.
Kaptain K Mart
This the kinf of attitude most users have to put up with in Tacoma.
Kaptain K Mart
This the kinf of attitude most users have to put up with in Tacoma.
Kaptain K Mart
Hey people, I've been thinking. Why don't we have some sort of Tacoma-
Seattle sysop and user get-together. It would be interesting to meet all
of these people in Seattle that I've been typing at. We could all meet
halfway at some pizza place or something or maybe have a party at someone's
house if it's big enough. Does this sound like a good idea?
Kaptain K Mart
Hey people, I've been thinking. Why don't we have some sort of Tacoma-
Seattle sysop and user get-together. It would be interesting to meet all
of these people in Seattle that I've been typing at. We could all meet
halfway at some pizza place or something or maybe have a party at someone's
house if it's big enough. Does this sound like a good idea?
Kaptain K Mart
Hey people, I've been thinking. Why don't we have some sort of Tacoma-
Seattle sysop and user get-together. It would be interesting to meet all
of these people in Seattle that I've been typing at. We could all meet
halfway at some pizza place or something or maybe have a party at someone's
house if it's big enough. Does this sound like a good idea?
Kaptain K Mart
Hey people, I've been thinking. Why don't we have some sort of Tacoma-
Seattle sysop and user get-together. It would be interesting to meet all
of these people in Seattle that I've been typing at. We could all meet
halfway at some pizza place or something or maybe have a party at someone's
house if it's big enough. Does this sound like a good idea?
Grendel
Starcrow, THIS IS A FUCKING FLAME ROOM!
This is what the room was created for, not nicey nice discussion.
Twoflower
yeah.
hey grendel, fuck off you twit.
:)
Goliath
Sure, I'll bring the tear gas.
Angela Davis
Joking around? Ha.
Twoflower
God complex? God complex?
I don't have a god complex, you little peons.
Little Nemo
Tacoma people are invited to all of the cb's, of course. Are any coming up in the South End?
Shane Johnson
If I remember right... Joe and I created Sysop Forum as a DISCUSSION area for sysop/board problems... people turned it into a FLAME room... about the time that Twit List started... which was the origional design of the Forum... Sysop Forum was what we at one time thought about calling the Citadel sysops. There was a Sysop Association, which has passed into obsurity... And Grendel: FUCK YOU. :)
Mucous
We could all meet at Theatre sports at the Market Theatre. Haven't been in awhile.
Starcrow
Grendel: I believe I stated that if you had had a gripe, that's one thing. But gratuitous flaming for no reason whatsoever is a waste of time for the users and the networking.
KKM, Mucous and everyone else interested in a Tacoma-Seattle BBSer get together, we have a sort of one in the works to occur at Norwescon in March. A hot tub party, no less...
Kid Charlemagne
grendel, go sit on a traffic cone. ":)
i've noticed another thing.... new sysops seem to not only get a "god complex" in some cases, but when they start networking, the older, more established sysops get this really interesting "trademaster" attitude... as if the new guy can't POSSIBLY know anything or have anything good to contribute... yeah right.
one never knows if, before hooking up the modem to his phone line and setting up a board, the new sysop hasn't spent the last four years in computer engineering, or consulting, or whatever. it's automatically assumed that he or she is just another hobbyist, and a stranger at that. i think this is bullshit. (no, i'm not going to go into MY background, i'm a hobbyist and that's it.)
this is also true of new programmers, who for whatever reason pick up a copy of whateverCit code, make a few changes, and come out with their own versions of the program. the older programmers, sysops, and users think, oh, this guy can't POSSIBLY have anything valuable YET, he's got to languish over the program for at least a year or so before the program is worth running.... again, bullshit. doesn't take a year of languishing to come up with a better way ofdoing something, just the code to do it. and of course, everyone has their own style of programming/hacking/debugging.... which means that (asthetics aside) in this arena everyone is equally smart or stupid. now, one programmer may be REALLY GOOD at working on the citadel, because it's been all he's been doing for years; they'll know the modules inside and out and when a bug is found be able to tell exactly where in the code the bug is located. but if someone else comes up with something new to put in, or a more efficient way to code an older feature/function, this doesn't invalidate the older programmer or the newer one. sometimes it takes a new perspective to find the bugs and smooth out the code....
with all that in mind, i'm sick and tired of the Seniority Wars, or more aptly, the Senility Wars.... (if this is what we're fighting over we've run out of controversy and we should go play shuffleboard.....)
JoAnne
Ah well, Twoflower. You're from Bainbridge Island... not actually Seattle.
:-)
I realize, Angela, that Tacoma has a history, too. Apparently there are
those who would prefer to label a message as Seattle-centrism rather than
consider it a possible bridge between two viable communities. Seattle can
pretend to be better as long as Tacoma decides to pretend it's not. The
point I was making (in case it was missed) is that we're all in this together
and the petty nonsense comes with the territory.
Zod's Friend
Perhaps we could have a get together that is b/t here and Tacoma, like say Federal Way maybe? Just an idea of course.
Grendel
Thanks Shane and Twof, I want to take you both at the same time, you big studs.
Saphyre
Well we'll be there for Norwestcon
Mucous
I would come to some/one of the gatherings in Seattle, but I don't really have a lot of free time, with school, work, and computer work, and homework, and moving to a new location, and stuff.
Ferris Bueller
Shane, you may have started this room off for Discussion's but it's a Flame room now. Live with it or drop it is the way I see it. Hell make another if you have to but the room here says at the start its for War so I want to leave it at that. You wouldn't find my changing it.
Ferris Bueller
Hell, it's better than Reruns of the Brady Bunch!!!
Little Nemo
The Posies are playing an acoustic show at the Crocodile Cafe that night -- Hero probably would want to know that. :) So I may ditch the cb early; priorities, you see.
Cave Bear
San San and Bobbie, please pull "Other Boards" from our nodes.cit. I'm deleting it as of tonight. Outer Limits, Dreamscape, Adults Etc and TurboTech have already done so. Thank you.
Twoflower
the next gathering in Seattle is Saturday, February 8th at the Seattle Center (Center House.)
Mucous
Well, you find that a little strange, and I suppose I would to, if I had not been dealing with the person for years. In fact, he had already been sending BS over the net (in my opinion). I don't care if he puts that stuff on the net, so much, just as long as I am not the one responsible for networking it to the rest of the net. I didn't want to stop him from getting his messages on my board. I don't think that would be right. I would be taking the right of other sysops to decide whether or not they want to see his messages on their boards, if I were to do that.
Kaptain K Mart
Shut-up, plant man!
Saphyre
It's done Cave Bear
Mucous
Sure, just promise me you won't be a shithead anymore.
Kaptain K Mart
I am who I am. But I've been a shiney happy person lately.
Ferris Bueller
When did Paul from DreamScape start Netting??? He has always kept the board away from that I though. Hummm I guess I was wrong.
Joe Carrasquillo
Paul and I are old friends going back to the early 80s along with Dan Raybell (BBSers Annonomous) and Don Ostey (Catacombs). We net for e-mail purposes only, not for rooms.
Mucous
Contributive?
The only boards you contribute possitively to are the ones with either a lot of ranking, or files. It has been five years of harrassing the systems that I call. Multiple accounts on gaming systems, multiple accounts on message systems. Logging in under another person's name, just leaving a . somewhere in the name, and leaving nasty messages to other people in other peoples' names. Do you call that contributing? Not even considering any reason a sysop, or aide, might have to doing something, and rebelling against authority. Rebelling against authority is not such a bad thing, in general. I have been twitted many times for doing just that, on many boards. I have always insured that it was for good reason, though.
Kaptain K Mart
I haven't done any of those things in about 4 years. Get up to date. I was
15 when I did that stuff. I think most 15 year olds typically do things
like that. Past 4 or 5 years I haven't been doing any harrassing. I'm now
a responsible Cit sysop and I really hate people harassing me, so I wouldn't
do the same to anyone else. You just like blaming me for everything for
some reason. It's really funny since I don't do anything like that. There
are lots of 15 years olds on the BBSes that do things like that, but not me.
Kaptain K Mart
Whoa! Just killed 100 doubled messages in this room!!
Twoflower
Sysops from Bainbridge Island are by far vastly superior to sysops from anywhere else.
Of course, I'll be moving to Seattle in April, so then sysops from Seattle will be vastly superior.
:)
Joe Carrasquillo
Hey look everybody...They kissed and made up
...Geez...and you called "Cave Bear" a butt kisser <snicker>>
Little Nemo
they already are. :)
Bran Tregare
Cave bear, you know catman??
Ferris Bueller
Yea, Joe, I am one of his old users. Use to call the board back when it was on an Atari 130XE.... Ah the good 'ol days! :-)
Twoflower
No, they're not. Not until I move to Seattle. Geeze.
Joe Carrasquillo
Cave Bear, Catman, Dan and Paul have been close friends for years.
Mucous
You are currently dong that stuff on INFO, dickhead. Things just conveniently slip your mind, right? Please tell me you have some excuse for not remembering current events. Please tell me you had a stroke and lost your short term memory. Please, oh please tell me.
Kid Charlemagne
hey taleteller, set up a booth and sell lemonade and opera glasses... ":)
TaleTeller
TT watches in amazement as the ball bounces fare and wide and back again.
"
Hey, this place hasn't been so fun in ages!"
Angela Davis
Just because they all say, "Whoa, does this guy think we're that dumb?" does not mean they're duplicate messages.
Steve Baxter
Twoflower>
Get a life. Olympia sysops are the greatest.
Captain James T Kirk
Oh course. Oly sysops are the BEST.
Captain James T Kirk
Nope, wait a min... Lacey sysops are there best.
Captain James T Kirk
Haha....
Kid Charlemagne
preferably someone LOCAL to dreamscape.... and didn't he run that old version without the device checking in the download and upload sections for a LOONG time after everyone switched over? i think he was the last one to get crashed by that bug.....
paul needs to keep up on what's going on, cavey, this is what happens when you don't net the "latest bells and whistles" rooms... ":)
Cave Bear
Whoever "Jeff" is from Mocha, Yes I recieved your e-mail net test but was unable to reply since I don't know who "Mocha" nets with. I need a new Grid to redo my route.cit since there are so many new boards out since JJ last had it done.
Also, Paul from Dreamscape needs someone to upload a "legal release of DragCit 312.??" to him. If someone would be so kind he would appreciate it very much, and would also like to state that this is the only thing holding him up from netting. Dreamscape's number is: 939-3998 or 631-1159 @ 2400bps.
My apologies to everyone who left me e-mail under this 'nym. I hardly ever use it lately.
San San
Mocha nets with PS(and a few others). The grid should still be valid but not updated for most of us who were included in the last grid.
Jeremiah Johnson
Jeff's the Sysop over at Mocha :) I have Mocha netting with:
Age of Aquarius, Columbia Crest, Crow's Nest (maybe), Fred's Toy, Green River CC (maybe), PhotoSynthesis, The Log Cabin, and last but not least The NeverMind...
Mucous
I am not sure if this is netting properly.
Joe Carrasquillo
Thanks San San.
Thanks to you too Kid Charlemagne :) I don't know why he insists on slow changes but hes ready to move up and on. I think he was always concerned about loosing his message base or some such thing when making the switch to the new updates.
Joe Carrasquillo
Forget the rest, Kent Sysops hide the best! :)....
Thanks JJ.
The Great Zod
Is the idea of a western Washington GT of sysops (or at least Seattle and Tacoma) an idea that might work?
Someplace Federal Wayish would split the difference.
Worse case, might be some conversation..
Anyone interested?
Zod's Friend
Sounds like a good idea to me! There are several places near SeaTac Mall that would work great! For those that live WAY out north, we could try and put together a carpool of some sort. How `bout it people? Let's not talk about it, lets do it!
Pitbull Terrier
Seattle sysops and Tacoma sysops are very different. Olympia sysops are more different, still.
Pretty Eyes
Kent sysops may be cool, but i can't say the same for kent. :smile:
King Royal
Kent? ya mean Dent!!! it's an ok place..I know a few people from there
Mucous
There should be a gathering between some Seattle/Tacoma sysops, I think. I don't know when or where, but I think it would be a good thing, if only for socializing.
Steve Baxter
Olympia could also car pool. You >are< inviting us too, aren't you? (And Tacoma says it feels left out..)
Starcrow
Jerimiah Johnson: Did you say you were netting with my board? Did you mean directly, or indirectly? And if you want to net directly, I'm always open to new nodes. Unfortunately, right now I can't do a net call-out (some sort of software/hardware problems), but I'm doing just fine with lots o' call-ins. :)
Cave Bear
I think you guys need to travel the world first and *then* render a verdict. Go to places such as "Mildenhall, England..., Frankfurt, Germany... San Salvador...Norman, Oklahoma :)
Iron Crown
Hey Cave Bear, I've been to Mildenhall, and Lakenheath, and Greenum Common...
Shane Johnson
I think the best place to have a CB is the 142B Denny's (it's in South Fed-Way, and REALLY CLOSE to the Freeway, on near a bus-route (for those who'll bus) OR we could do it in 1 of 2 Godfathers in the Federal Way Area... SEA-TAC MALL GF is on the NORTH side of 320th... or the other GF is in Twin-Lakes... (Geoff and I are REAL close to that one... ;)
Mucous
Kaptain K Mart has called my bbs under the name "Right Said Fred" and harrassed at least one of my users. He called her fat, which is true, and he called her stinky, which is also true. It was his choice to be a dick about these facts, however. I thought he said he hadn't done that kind of thing in quite awhile. He left me a message telling me that he would call back under a different name in a few months when he is bored.
Little Nemo
Well, just so the Tacoma people know that they are all invited to this Saturday's cb at Seattle Center, if they wish to go. It's a good, LARGE place where we won't overwhelm the staff... well served by bus/monorail... and lots of choices for food that's NOT pizza! :)
Joe Carrasquillo
The GodFathers sounds great to me. Pizza and Beer :)
Dave
Pietros is very close to a bus line. The 174 goes south on 99.
Twoflower
As a matter of fact, I have been to Mildenhall, England. We drove by Frankfurt, and the plane didn't stop in San Salvador (it did stop in Panama City and Equador, and we spent 10 days in Peru...) and I can't recall ever having been to Norman, Oklahoma (though if I remember Oklahoma right, if you've been to one bit, you've pretty much seen it all...:)
Twoflower
(I do like to travel, you understand. My next major trip will be back to Europe, or to Russia, or to Asia somewhere. I hope, anyway.)
Zod's Friend
The Plan is the Pietros just off of 320th and Pacific Highway South, thats just NW of SeaTac Mall next to the Arco. 7PM Feb. 8th. Actual address is:
1404 So. 320th
941-3010
Hope to see some of you Tacoma Sysops there!
Angela Davis
Cave Bear: NETROUTE will detect new boards and update your ROUTE.CIT for you. The final beta is available at 525-3683.
Kid Charlemagne
beo: asking agressiva to reschedule a CB is like asking zz top to reschedule an entire concert tour. as in, it ain't gonna happen in MY lifetime, dude. ":)
Little Nemo
I just got a message from Beowulf promoting a Tacoma/Seattle sysops' get-together on Feb 8th.
But there is a CB that night!
Bad timing. Unfortunately, the CB takes priority for many of us.
Little Nemo
Sorry.
Kaptain K Mart
Thank you for the invitation Seattle. Maybe a few of us Tacoma people would
be able to come. I'm looking forward when I'll have the chance to meet some
of you (though not Saturday).
Joe Carrasquillo
:)
Zod's Friend
Well, this is only the first one, I'm sure there will be others.
Agressiva
like, what little nemo said.
in yer face.
Twoflower
I've been to Greenum Common as well. I just couldn't remember the name. :)
And who's idea was it to schedule the sysop gathering on the 8th?
There has been a CB scheduled for 5 years on that date.
Night Tracker
Pietro's Sucks, I work in the one in Tacoma.
Beowulf
I see my messages in this topic are still disappearing, so, to repeat.... There is no rule that states that there can't be two gatherings. There are people, like the Tacoma/Olympia/Spanaway sysops that are not likely to want to come to Seattle for a CB, and there are sysops that wouldn't want to come to a sysop gathering in Federal Way.
For those that would like to do both, I would suggest doing one than the other, or, Little Nemo and Aggresiva can organize another inter-city sysop gathering, at a time(presumably soon), that is more convenient for those that prefer the CB.
Little Nemo
I'd rather see the Tacoma sysops at the cb. They'd meet a LOT more people there.
As it is, it's not that I don't want to meet the Tacoma people. It's that a netwide event was ALREADY PLANNED for the 8th, (and, if I understand correctly, at least one tacoma sysop was planning already to attend the cb), and many of us want to go to Seattle Center.
Besides, I was only given notice about the sysop thingy yesterday. Rather late for any big GT, right?
Waxed
To emphasize the fact:
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For those of you without an 80-column terminal, the above message read:
THERE IS A CB
ALREADY PLANNED
FOR SATURDAY,
FEBRUARY 8th, AT
SEATTLE CENTER
Thank you for your attention.
Little Nemo
There is no rule on the matter, however common sense dictates that you try not to schedule breaks when one is already scheduled...
I'm just disappointed, you see. I'd like to meet these people, but I don't want to drive to two breaks in one evening, especially since I was planning to attend a Posies' show later that night anyway.
Starcrow
I agree with KKM (gasp!) :) I also look forward to meeting some of you people, but unfortunately this weekend (and next one, too) are no good for me. Maybe next time...
Captain James T Kirk
Hay Steve, You said you had an autorouter for DragCit, could I d/l that??? pllleeassee???
The Maven
Oh for god's sake, Twof, Zod's friend, SHUT THE HECK UP! We KNOW you don't like each other already, for god's sake!
Twoflower
Someone's got a thick skull, scheduling anything on a second saturday of any month, and especially this second saturday, since it has already been posted about (and the Tacoma and Olympia sysops invited).
But then again, seeing as who would show up from Seattle (Zod's Friend, Zod, Beowulf) it's probably better that they schedule something for themselves.
Then we don't have to worry about them showing up to the CB and their presence spoiling our fun.
Dave
Jonie and Charles will be coming with me to Pietros this Saturday Evening ;]
Jeremiah Johnson
Starcrow: I'm not netting with your board that I KNOW of... Hmm :-)
Zod's Friend
It's happened b/4 and it will happen again, somethings will collide with other plans. Like I said, there will be others. Not all those who live in Tacoma want to drive all the way to downtown Seattle for a get together unless they're here for another purpose as well.
To the Olympia Sysop (whos name escapes me after that lovely grahic about the other thing on the 8th), yes you are more then welcome to attend.
At this meeting we will likely discuss another that wont conflict with next months get together. Hey maybe if enough of us are going to the con, we can plan one for mid afternoon on Sat. Just a thought. Would be convienent though wouldn't it?
Steve Baxter
Audin>
As he said, it's a beta version. Back up your route.cit and msg.dat before you use it. I copied both files to a seperate directory and used it there. It seemed to work OK.
I'll put it in the Olympia Sysops room.
Twoflower
you'd have to ask both agressiva and me.
and it has happened, you know.
3 years ago. a certain SAB left for a city back east on an early saturday morning, so we moved the CB to the friday so we could see her before she left, and so we could take advantage of seafood night at king's table.
boy, was that a mistake. the seafood sucked.
Richard Goldfinder
Angela Davis, Cave Bear: since TurboCit strips paths, NETROUTE probably won't work for Cave Bear's Laire.
All: I don't officially recognize a subject change. :)
Zod's Friend
Well, such a typical respose from you Twoflower.
BTW, did ya ever stop to think it might of been planned this way, so YOU and your kind wouldn't come?
Besides Beowulf stopped netting the rooms that carry the messages about CB's GT's or whatever they happened to be called this week, so he didn't know about those you have planned thru this century.
Before you talk about thick skulls, I suggest you try looking in a mirror!
Captain James T Kirk
Thanks. Hmm, i'll bet backing up your msg.dat isn't too easy... haha
Steve Baxter
It's a big file. Mine must be a meg and a half.
Beowulf
Kid Charlemagne, please not that I suggested that Agressiva(and Little Nemo) schedule another gathering(relatively soon) for the Seattle area/Tacoma area sysop, not reschedule the CB.
I do think that inviting the Tacoma/Olympia/Spanaway sysop to the CB is a nice gesture, but it is 30 miles farther, at the Seattle Center. Hardly common ground.
Pietro's may "suck"(that was the word, wasn't it?), but Pizza Hut was crowded, Vince's was expensive, and Round Table was not interested in having the group. Pietro's was not chosen at random. I checked all these places and more, before making a choice.
Sorry you can't make it Little Nemo, but there should be more of these joint gatherings, and I hope you can make it to the next one(s).
ford prefect
i dont' see what all the complaining is about.
ûô
do people honestly want beowulf at a seattle cb?
i think having a stupid second cb, to conveniently get rid of some of the more unsavory characters, is a brilliant idea.
unfortunately, any schism that occurs will be harped upon for months.
Twoflower
Well, as 2 out of 3 responding Tacoma sysops have said, they can't make it to any gathering this weekend.
Not that it bothers me. I've met the sysop to "YOUR NAME HERE" at RustyCon (though I believe I missed one or two other Tacoma sysops there.)
Zod: of course I concidered the possiblity. I just thought to deliberately schedule something so 'we' won't show up could be beyond the intelligence of any of 'you'.
Dumb drunk fuck.
Beowulf
I may not have made myself entirely clear. There is a rule that there will be no rule. Confused?
When I gave control(for lack of a better word) of Coffee Break over to Twoflower, there were six rules.
1. Because TUG generally has it's meetings on Friday, and actually does things, Coffee Break will be held on Saturdays. Preferably the second Saturday of the month.
2. It is the responsibility of the host to:
a: pick a location and book it
b: pick a time
c: call all the boards he's on and announce it
d: get all his friends to call all their boards and announce it
e: get all his relatives to call all their boards and announce it
f: get all his friends' realtives... etc.
g: find a volunteer to host the next one
h: make sure the volunteer does a-g, for the next Coffee Break
3. Coffee Breaks will move around the Greater Seattle area, so as to make it convenient to all modemer, at some point during the year.
4. There will be no rule to precluded other meetings, gatherings, parties, or breaks, at the same time as the "official"(cough, cough) Coffee Break.
5. There will be no rule or policy that would preclude attendance by any individual or group of individuals.
6. There will be no rule or policy governing the conduct of those in attendance at Coffee Break. As such, the host will not be held accountable for such conduct.
The first three were from the start, the last three were added as feuds and fights developed.
Captain James T Kirk
Uh huh... Mines only 325k, but, it's still kinda big... I didn't want to have to start over with a new message base, when i got the HD running, so i kept the Floppie one.
Captain James T Kirk
The Oly sysops room isn't a dir...
The Great Zod
Twoflower, you silly twit. Of course we deliberately excluded you (anyone believing me here? :)
BTW, this is my first post in here in some time. You might try addressing the correct person next time. You will look considerably less like a fool (although, not much).
(I really pity those would-be yuppies..)
Grendel
Ah, but Maven, I was enjoying the great display of intelligence from Beo and his drunken cronies.
Pan Man
(as the realist pokes his head in)
It doesn't really matter who schedules what when.
If somebody is going to schedule something on the night of the coffee break, let them.
If this idiot actually thinks he can get CB goers away for whatever the hell this is, well, more power to him. Or her.
I know I'm going to the coffee break. I know most of the people that usually go to coffee breaks are going to the coffee break.
I can't imagine people going to this other thing, unless it happened to be hosted by somebody far more interesting that anyone at the coffee break. As for modemer attitudes, not likely.
So, go ahead and host what you want.
I'm going to a CB.
The Maven
Now here's the big question: WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP ON ABUSING ZOD AND HIS FRIEND, TWOF? GIVE IT UP! NOBODY ACTUALLY CARES! All it does is make YOU look like a JERK!
Zod's Friend: If Twof is being such a jerk, why do you keep responding to him at all?
Me: Why the heck do I read this room? It's so smegging stupid!
Livia
We just have to hope that the Tacoma sysops don't think the people at the non-CB are typical of Seattle modemers. :)
Zod's Friend
I have a question for those of you that refer to Zod as a drunk. Have you actually spent enough time to honestly say what you have been saying, or are you relying on second hand information? I have known Zod for a very long time, and he has always been a responsible drinker. In fact unless you can honestly say that every time youve seen him he's been falling down, take away his keys drunk then SHUT THE FUCK UP and stop the slanderous comments.
Dave
Livia, I live in Burien, and at any of the CBs or SMUG or any other computer group gathering that I have ever gone to have I seen a "Typical Seattle Modemer" because there is no such thing;] The people who use modem communications are all INDIVIDUALS.
I will also add that there is no such thing as a "Typical Amateur Radio Operator" for the same reasoning (change the word modem to the word Radio).
Twoflower
Ah, I now realize the error of my ways.
It wasn't the dumb drunk fuck that adressed me, it was the dumb slut.
Twoflower
and no one 'gave' me control. Andy and I started scheduling coffee breaks after Beo and several other 'people sort of in charge' stopped 'sponsoring' them.
And no one was willing to host, because, despite #6 on his list, hosts were held accountable on certain (shall I just say, Mayday?) boards.
So far we've had few complaints, and anytime anyone has asked us if they could host one, we've let them (in fact, we encourage it). We also change the locations of CB's planned if a new host would like to. It doesn't bother us.
Beowulf
I have to agree with The Maven, in intent, if not verbage. I know that Zod's Friend and The Great Zod are capable of dealing with the discussion with better demeanor. As far as Twoflower and friends, I doubt that they can restrain themselves so we'll have to discuss around them. Then there is Grendel, but he is just being Grendel:)
As for attendance at the Sysop Gathering, I have received mail from four of the Tacoma/Olympia/Spanaway sysops, saying that they will be there. I have received mail from eleven Seattle area sysops advising that they plan on attending. This is not bad considering that I did not ask for responses to my messages..
Joe Carrasquillo
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Children!
ford prefect
ireally like hte idea of the sixth rule.
if it weren't for the fact that i am a vehement anti-authoritarian, i would support enforcement of it.
'i'd rather slam my fingers in a door, again and again and again and again and again..'
Little Nemo
as far as "inviting Tacoma/Olympia sysops to the cb being a nice gesture" ... well, thanks. Except I would be remiss not to point out that, as far as I've been told, CB's are open to everyone, net-wide. Every month. SO they should consider themselves invited to all of them.
If Dallas modemers wanted to show up, they could, though it'd be one hell of a commute.
Beowulf
Twoflower is, of course, mistaken. It might be considered a "too flowery" view of history. I do think it is interesting that so many people can respect someone that calls a woman a "slut". Last CB where I saw something like that happen, a user nym'ed "Paladin" broke a schooner and held it up to Brian Wright's throat, until he apologized. Personally, I couldn't tolerate a person that has that little regard for women. (Now, if you wanna call me a "slut" feel free:)
I will make sure that the Tacoma sysop are aware of that the group at Pietro's are not fully representative of the Seattle area BBS community. They should be forewarned. Though, with Kaptain K Mart, Steve Baxter, and Mucous, in their community, they must understand the range of diversity.
Sorry you can't make it Pan Man, enjoy the CB.
Twoflower
Yes, I do speak from experience.
I spent many a night several years ago, watching will smoke and drink, carolyn smoke, and both try to tear each other apart. In their own home.
And people wonder why I am no longer friends with (at least will) them.
I wonder why I was ever friends in the first place.
Grendel
Gee, I get Brownie points from Beo for being myself.
It could be worse. He could stick me in the 'Evil Twoflower Net Ghods' camp and decided I'm part of the conspiracy to take over the net that Twoflower is leading. (He talks about it all the time on his BBS from the capture files I've seen passed around for giggles)
So now I'm just a free agent causing chaos and high blood pressure wherever I go. I do believe that I've found my calling in life.
Waxed
TaleTeller
Wow! A big GREEN dragon is trying to eat our heroes! I wonder why it doesn't just fry them? Oh, it's tried, but the wizard deflected the bolt.
Oh, sorry, I'm watching the coolest show in the world.
Twoflower
Really?
I'm trying to take over the net?
Cool. I didn't even know it. I must just be like, a most charismatic person if I can just 'take over' the entire network without trying.
Twoflower
And I find it interesting that Beowulf can be friends with someone who had at least 2, maybe 3 mistresses at the same time as having a wife and young son.
At least one of those mistresses being Zod's friend herself.
And as for Beowulf's 'regard' for women, it's legendary.
Just ask Kalen. She'll tell you how much 'respect' Beowulf has. Or some of his other former roommates. I wouldn't call him a 'slut', just an 'asshole.'
The Great Zod
Most likely because of your preference in females.
The
"tear each other apart" was nothing new, and had been going on for quite a while. Hence the split.
BTW, observing an occurance once or twice does not establish a pattern.
And I still feel sorry for yuppie wanna-be's. Tough existance ya know, and all that frustration..
Beowulf
That's true, Little Nemo, I wrote it as (un)rule number 5:)
Zod's Friend
Ya know, maybe I could say the same of you, Twoflower, I know things about you that, if it didn't hurt innocent people, I'd make mention of. Your calling me a slut is neither here nor there, and in fact I laughed when I read it condidering the source. As far as what you saw years ago, well it's indicitive as to why solace was sought elsewhere, including one in your own circle of friends, does this mean that she's a slut too, after all we both slept with a married man didn't we. Social drinking does not make one a "dumb drunk fuck". I have been to a few parties recently where people were drunk to the point of puking, and they got that way by drinking in excess and mixing grain and grape, it wasn't a pretty sight.
Zod, for the most part has always been a reponsible drinker.
To sum things up, you have not come up with any proof that Zod is in fact a drunk, no surprise as the folks he was forced to see, and the person he went to on his own both came to the same conclusion in the end - no he's not an alchoholic but perhaps he shouldn't of used alchohol medicinally.
So go back to your CB planning for the next century and unless you can say the same about the weeds in you garden stay out of mine.
James Shields
This is pathetic...
Agressiva
ok, let me get this straight.
(assuming for the sake of the following argument that zod's friend's ganky accusation was remotely true.)
(actually, i just wanted to retch this up.)
if beowulf scheduled this little sysop gathering at the same time as the cb for the purpose of excluding twoflower and his terrible cronies (of which i am proud to call myself a member) (no, really), then why did beowulf call my board (among many others, judging from the buffer-dump) specifically to invite me there?
anyway.
now for a half-serious thing of notice. no, really, andy can be serious.
i remember events a little differently. i remember that when beowulf and mayday one gave up on coffee breaks, they (in their animation) did so without attaching any conditions of any sort. more of an abandoning than a gift. this obviously doesn't synch up with what beowulf and mayday one are now saying.
so what gives?
(shit! i just passed the page limit! this message must be garbage now. . . sorry to bother you.)
(by the way, waxed, that was beautiful.)
Shane Johnson
I'm not going to take sides... I will attend the Federal Way Meeting out of LOCAL interests... (Saving a Buck is better than getting Fucked Up) I'd like to meet some of the Tacoma Sysops and would also like to get the stupid quarrls over with... it's friday, people have decided to do what they want... If you don't like it, just say "Fuck THEM" to your self, and ignore it... Crist you all sound like a broken record... Hey Grendel... Let's team up! :)
Livia
Grendel: so who else is supposed to be in on Twoflower's net conspiracy?
Zod's Friend
Well I see you didn't name the other one, what's a matter, you can dish it out, but you can't take it eh? Oh, and BTW before you become more judgemental, the wife in question fully knew about both, and in fact condoned one of them to offset the other thinking all would be well and he would come to his senses. Like Bradshaw says "if he doesn't get it at home, he's bound to go elsewhere" of course in this case "it' moved in. So Nyah to you, you uninformed arrogant little Twerp.
Oh yeah, one more thing - H U G S - I hate this shit, so post away, cuz I've said my peace, but you in your usual style will never stop, so why should I perpetuate it.
TaleTeller
Maybe I should go. I'd like to meet all of the Tacoma folks. Hmm. Beowulf, sorry I've lost track of when it is, and besides, I'd like a ride there because I love busses so much.
Beowulf
No, no Grendel, you have to keep up with current news. Milliways was controlling the network, but lost control due to disorganization. Zen Master/Flying Wombat attempted to re-establish his control, but due to real life time constraints couldn't follow up. This is all based on who is giving orders, and tell others what they can and can not do, on the net. Unless the Milliways users step in, I imagine that we'll see someone new emerge. In a conversation, sometime ago, with Peter, we hoped it might be The Maven, but the Zen Master/Flying Wombat & Jeremiah Johnson/test account were a close second and they were the ones that made it.
Twoflower you, who can casually refer to a woman as a "slut", are without honor. Your words have no value or meaning.
For the sake of BBS history, if anyone would like me to forward their addresses to Kalen Bonn, in Pennsylvania, send though addresses to me. I write her on a regular basis.
As far as my other roommates go, there was Noel(Twoflower's girlfriend's sister, also Ford Prefect's girlfriend's sister). I'm not sure how to contact her. Probably though Ford would be best. Noel is an extremely nice person, and worth the contact for whatever reason.
The Muse, sysop of Xanadu, is another ex-roommate of mine. You can drop her mail at Xanadu, or Mayday 1. She was coming to the Sysop Gathering but decided that the ride from Kirkland to Federal Way, on her motorcycle, would not be pleasant.
There are about a dozen women friends like Silk, Tyger, the ever lovely Brenda, Bren A. Bear, Adrienne, Bobbie, The Shrew, and Wendy, which also might bear(no pun intended Bren) inquiry.
What can I say. I treat women with respect, unless they do not wish it from me. Unlike someone that would actually call a woman a "slut", purposely, to be offensive.
She-Zog
Twoflower and a married man? not that it really matters, I've had my share of married men. But really y'all.... more graphic details would make the posts more interesting.
Angela Davis
Noel? I know her. I'll just ask her for the straight scoop.
As for the rest of you: what makes you think Tacoma and Olympia sysops would want to shell out all those bucks to drive up here and meet a bunch of sorry bickering pukes as pathetic as all of you? Fuck, at least when we bicker in Tacoma, we haul in the facts. At least we sling >real barbs< at one another. And we sure do it MUCH LESS FREQUENTLY. Your squabbles go on and on. But nobody pulls out the incriminating factoids. Nobody whips out the death-knelling buffer dump. You apparently don't have much basis for this stuff. You just DON'T LIKE each other. Accept it. Move on.
(Had to get that out. You may return to your bickering.)
Beowulf
The (un)rules of Coffee Break were available for downloading when Mayday was obligated, by myself, to be a place that users could come and get the information about the coming Coffee Break. In the beginning, there were the three (un)rules. The last three were "clarifications"demanded of me, by users. Two of those "clarifications" were demanded by Twoflower. He wanted certain people, specifically Merciful Q. Snatch, excluded from Coffee Break, and he wanted me to condemn people that had board functions the same date and time as Coffee Break. I would do neither, and added the approriate (un)rules.
As far as taking over, when I announced that Mayday 1 would no longer support Coffee Break because of the hatred being fostered by certain individuals(regarding behavior at these things), Twoflower wrote me, and asked that I put him in charge. He even asked nicely. I put my hands on my monitor, and said "consider yourself in charge" (?), and sent him back mail telling him to "go for it". Shortly there after I started hearing about all kinds of lies Twoflower had been telling people about me, like I was telling people to not go to the Coffee Breaks, and that I was posting wrong locations to limit attendance, and the like. I thought initially that he was getting mis-information from someone. Nowadays, I think he actually believed the stuff he was inventing.
Oh, Grendel, I was referring to you being "Grendel", not you being yourself(though there might not be a difference).
Joe Carrasquillo
Well, I'm just sorry I can't make it to both the gt and cb. I have personal business to conduct so can only go for about ten to fifteen minutes.
Beowulf
This Saturday there will be the Coffee Break, the intercity SysOp gathering in Federal Way, and there will be a new episode of ST:TNG, all starting at 7pm. For those of you that are interested in the SysOp Gathering, it will be at Pietro's Pizza in Federal Way(320th & Pacific Highway S.).
Go to the Coffee Break. Go to the SysOp Gathering. Go to the Coffee Break and then the SysOp Gathering. Go to the SysOp Gathering then Coffee Break. Or stay at home and watch ST:TNG.
If you are coming to the intercity SysOp Gathering, do it because it sounds like a good idea, not as a political statement or to spite the Coffee Break people.
Twoflower
Please, PLEASE, Zod's Friend, tell everyone what kind of 'dirt' you have on me.
I'd love to see it.
And this isn't the first time I've asked people to post such. It's been threatened many times. No one seems to be able to dredge up anything.
Twoflower
I'd also like to see the documents talking about how I was trying to take over the network.
It's all news to me.
Maybe it started back when I decided that I had enough boards to network with and didn't want to net with any others, though I was approached by Beowulf and several others at the same time (and turned them all down.)
Maybe someone would be so kind as to buffer these documents in here as I did the compuserv vs. cubby documents beowulf wanted to see.
ford prefect
beowulf:
why would you want to contact her in the first place
³A÷÷®Z^~
Livia
It was a joke, Dave. However, I do believe that Seattle modemers fall into
some fairly distinct groups, and that some of these groups might make a better
impression than others.
As for this 'ruler of the net' stuff, anyone who thinks Zen and JJ control the
net has another BIG think coming: they make useful suggestions now and then, but
that's about it. As you can see be the bitching in WAN Admin, JJ can't even get
people to cooperate with his elaborate gridmaking schemes.
Beowulf's post on the subject said something like: net control is defined by
who can tell others what to do on the net. But in Twoflower's (and others with
a similar attitude) case what they 'tell' people is to do what they like...
which of course most people already do. (Like telling a pig to eat garbage and
roll in the mud.) That is, they're doing it because they'd do it anyway,
NOT because Twoflower told them to. Pretty convoluted logic there, Beowulf.
Nobody rules the net. Some people have more influence than others, but this is
always shifting. Even Dragon, in the days when all netting Cits were DragCits,
couldn't shut up people who weren't ready to shut up, or make people adopt a
policy they really didn't like. Nobody can now, either.
Twoflower
I'd say that was a nasty burst of line noise. :)
Twoflower
Me and a married man? That would be interesting, especially since I'm not gay or bi.
Beowulf
Following Grendel's lead, Livia missed the point that I indicated that Twoflower AND Milliways had lost control of the network, due to disorganization. Traces still appear. If you will note that no less that five users are posting in this discussion from Milliways. Now that may not indicate control, but it does indicate an individual board bias. At the time I mentioned the network control, in "Sysop Behavior", over 1/4 of the people posting in "Synergy Unltd" were, or had been, posting from Milliways.
Also, to presume that people won't try to control the network is to presume that people are sane and practical. If that was true, Livia would have pointed out her view, when Twoflower claimed I was trying to take control, not now. Twoflower wouldn't be calling women "sluts". Grendel would be civil. This is a conflict between reality, and desire. Unfortunately, reality normally wins out.
I know that controlling the network is silly. (Heck, the paperwork alone would drive you crazy.) But you will have people trying to control it, and claiming (in lily-white tones) that this is the farthest from their (always pure) hearts.
Captain James T Kirk
Indeed...
Grendel
I think I'll tape the episode and go to the CB. Federal Way is too far away, even if I WANTED to go.
Oh, and in Beo's defense, I never in my experiences around him (and I did spend a decent amount of time with him) saw him treat a woman badly in any way.
Beowulf
Ford, whom were you referring to?
Flying Wombat
Luckily for me, I don't have to make any decisions regarding the CB or the other 'thing.' my family is having a birthday party that evening, which takes precedence. and if it weren't for that, I'd probably take someone to an Imax movie... (hmm, good idea ;)
I'm seeing an interesting phenomenon in someone's messages in here - they're looking in the mirror, seeing their own behaviors (e.g. attempts at "net control" and so forth) and projecting that onto other people. this happens when someone is too uncomfortable with facing their own behavior.
and in such a situation, the person is likely to actually >believe< what he says about others, since he's not conscious that he is really talking about himself.
I've done a sufficient reality-check on the messages in question; for instance, the person has no inkling of where I'm coming from or where I've been coming from in the last year or more. the same undoubtedly applies to what the person has said about other people and situations over the last four years.
so there is no credence in the person's comments in general, and with all the factual errors I've seen, I'd say the person isn't likely to get the validation he seems to desparately need.
(now, I'll sit back and see how many people misconstrue what I've just said... I haven't yet decided whether to be mildly amused or a bit more compassionate to people who are just trying to cope. I think it'll depend on who is saying what.)
Sharon Ann Campbell
Incredible.
Techno Destructo
I see I'm in now Zod, thanks mon, do some read reverse and see whats happining in here.
JoAnne
Ah, but there is a third alternative, FW. You could always sit back and
feel superior. :-)
Captain James T Kirk
Actually...
There's The CB..
The sysop thingy in Fedral way..
ST:TNG(that can be taped)
AND there's a MUD down here in oly... bad timing... all of these things... very bad...
Livia
Beowulf: flaming is not the same as trying to take over. If you think that they're equivalent, then that explains a lot about your entire (faulty) net-control hypothesis.
And, people were posting in Synergy from Milliways because that's the only place they could get access. I don't think Twoflower gave it to them thinking that lots of posts headed Milliways would give him more net-power... in fact, he got ragged on for letting too many people have access.
ford prefect
beowulf, i was referring to noel franklin.
why would you wish to contact her?
i'm not convinced of your positive relationship with her.
Dave
Which bbs are carrying the Amateur Radio and Packet Radio rooms that are netting? I have both on Chateau Aspen and am netting them with Cave Bear's Laire and Shades of Blue directly.
James Shields
Asking Kalen about how men treat her is like asking a crack dealer how the police treats him/her.
Joe Carrasquillo
Hey it was fun meeting you guys! Beo, sorry we didn't chance to meet...Maybe next time eh! :)
Saphyre
How amusing
Saphyre
oh, and BTW, Beo has always treated me with respect and I trust him to continue to do the same through-out what will probably be a long friendship.
TaleTeller
I knew you people got there later than me. Of course, I left before nine. Some preoccupation with showing Japanese stuff and letting my son sleep at night.
Zen Master, a long time ago you said you could find amongst your buffered things, the first story that ever went through Blake Tales. The Miami Vice crossover. Can you do it? Please?
Beowulf
Ah, ford, I was referring to Twoflower(the man without honor)'s remark "Just ask Kalen. She'll tell you how much 'respect' Beowulf has. Or some of his other former roommates." I do think that Noel is worth the looking up. She is a fascinating and engaging person, even if she doesn't like me, or have a good opinion of me. I would rather have you people have an honest view of me, rather than just accepting a too flowery or livian one.
Sorry I missed you also Joe. You also missed TaleTeller, The Shrew, and The Maven, as late arrivals. Despite the light turn out, I had a great time. If nothing else, going over to TaleTeller's afterwards to watch "Jetman" was something not to be missed.
Beowulf
Oh, for those that don't know(and I can't imagine many of you actually knowing). "Jetman" is sorta a Japanese cross between the Jon Pertwee "Dr. Who", "Greatest American Hero", and "Transformers". The aliens, trying to take over the world, have the ability to make monsters rooted out of inanimate objects. In the first episode, our heros have to deal with the "garden-faucet monster". This stuff is just wonderfully funny.
Twoflower
(Me claiming Beowulf was trying to take control? No... I just claimed he was stupid, which he has backed up several times since...)
I certainly was NOT telling other boards on the net 'you can't post in Synergy'.
Anyone with access could post.
Not my fault other people didn't.
Beowulf isn't just an egotist, sexist, and someone who believes every child should be abused, he's also paranoid.
I wonder who he's calling sane?
And I wonder if he knows anything about any of the terms he throws around?
Just what does
'sane' mean?
Kid Charlemagne
(oh this is rich.)
beo: i think you're missing a major point here. twoflower and milliways never "lost" control of "the network" because (get this! this is good) they never HAD control.
now i suggest, on your next pass through here, to resist the urge to post, do a few breathing exercises, maybe take a valium or two, and then read the whole room. from the beginning, even. you're beginning to come across as a 'trelane' type person here, which i know CAN'T be true.....
zod's friend: your comment to flying wombat was uncalled for, cruel, and looked to me to be a deliberate attempt to drag yet another person into the fray in here, of which you have voiced "no interest in propagating." bullshit. you're just as much into seeing blood flow as the rest of us.
andy: no, your page limit was fine....
Livia
Beowulf: while we're at it, try putting spaces before and after your parentheses. (Just in case you wanted a 'livian view' of your posting style... :) )
Steve Baxter
And the smelt showed up in the river. So I loaded up the van with 8 teenagers and we netted about 100 pounds of nice smelt.
We missed all the meetings but we had a good time beside a big-hearted river under the stars.
Zod's Friend
`Scuse me. but I have NEVER addressed flying wombat, so you must have me confused with someone else. Flying wombat, if I said anything that was construed as being directed at you, I am truly sorry, I mean shoot, I don't even know you personally or thru the community have I ever had any trouble with you. So Kid C. what was it I said that even made you think this. Please, I'd really like to know.
Twoflower
Wow. Milliways lost a bunch of messages from this weekend. Fun, fun fun.
Beowulf probably is right that I was upset at MQS, and wished him banned from CB's. I really don't care now. He is also probably right that I was upset about people holding gatherings on the same night as a CB. I still do care, and get pissed about it.
I was told that Beowulf had told people not to go to CB's. Who by, I don't recall. It could have been many people. It doesn't matter anymore. I never was, nor did I ever tell anyone that Beowulf or anyone else were giving out wrong locations. We saw to it that everyone knew that CB's were continuing, and that they knew where they were.
Twoflower
Whoops, accidently saved.
I do recall that I asked Beowulf for controll, though at the time I was deluded into thinking that he may have actually cared at all about them. I see now it didn't matter.
Twoflower
Actually, I see we only lost about 3 or 4 messages that came in from Friday to Sunday. Not as bad as I thought. All those 'can't find message at byte XXXXX!' errors can be scary.
Techno Destructo
I am going to point something out here to everyone, its just a matter of Personnal opinion, The Great Zod has in the past, talked to me about networking, I was under the impression that networking was suppose to benifit everyone, that the purpose was "Everyone work together" yet most of the messages in here are just petty name calling. I am , I was... under the impression that a "Sysop Forum" was a room where we could share Ideas, discuss differances, etc.. Was I wrong? Oh Well...
I am sorry I missed the Sysops Meeting, I wasn't to excited about it after seeing this room, but I have been getting to some of you in person lately and probably would have enjoyed some of the company.
Beowulf
Thank you, Livia. I'll try and be more careful in the future:)
Zen master
TT: next time I have a free evening I'll look through the diskette collection, in case it's buffered. if it's in an old message base, that'll >still< be difficult (but >not< impossible) to do.. takes time and lots of disk space (have to restore each monthly backup until I find the right one.)
Beowulf
Kid Charlemagne, you are losing objectivity. As I mentioned before, when you wax poetic in your phraseology, it evokes emotional responses, not objective ones.
As far as 'trelane' goes, I am certain that you can find more than a couple sysops, on this net, that will assure you that it "is true". Who knows, I might be one of them:)
One last thing, why is it that, at least to my observation, those occasions when you have made a strong statement, it is, at least in part, a defense of Zen Master/Flying Wombat? If he is a friend, or someone that you hold respect for, it is understandable, but it work more effectively, for conversations involving you and I, if I understood your relationship from the start. (Besides, I'll be darned if I can remember anything that Zod's Friend might have posted regarding Zen Master/Flying Wombat. As far as our conversations have gone, I had the impression that she didn't even know this person existed.)
Twoflower
ah.
if i'm Twoflower(the man without honor) then Beowulf must be
Beowulf(child abuse is healthy!Really!)
Actually, I'd say if you wanted to ask someone about my 'honor', ask Menolly, who'd know better than anyone, but she dislikes Beowulf and Zod's Friend and hates Zod's guts, so, she's probably not a good person to ask.
And, not only does Noel not like Beowulf, but Gypsy hates him for all his uncalled for advances. She told him to buzz off and he wouldn't. Straight from her mouth (and numerous sightings at CB's, like March 1988.)
Zog T. Barbarian
I couldn't go to either, I had a life to worry about.
Beowulf
Techno Destructo, the room, as I understand it, was created for the free exchange of ideas and information by Sysops. Zen Master/Flying Wombat and Jeremiah Johnson/test account/GridMaker changed it to a flame room(when they weren't running the network:). I have been trying to change it back, but have met with resistance from a few vocal sysops. Admittedly, I have been occasionally drawn into their level of communication, but I do try to avoid it.
So, what is this I hear about you making a rather good lasagne?
Taleteller, I need to know what episodes of "Jetman" you have, and which one's you need(hopefully by number).
Grendel
Techno, Sysop Forum is not a room to 'share ideas, discuss differences, etc...'
It IS a room to flame and bash other sysops for any perceived faults in their person, behaviour, or their breath. It doesn't fucking matter. That's what the room is here for.
Joe Carrasquillo
Techno Destructo, by and large networking does indeed benefit most people if not all involved. People have disagreements, that is what makes us all unique. I personally made a simular mistake last fiscal year for which I am still chastizing myself for. I think that once you meet each individual, you will get a clearer understanding of the people who comprize this community. I am making that a recommendation for everyone, myself included. I would personally consider that a pleasure to be honest. This room is a forum for ideas and debates and as with any concepts, they can become heated and fall by the wayside only to be dredged up again. I expect to be contradicted, challenged and even (gasp!) to be agreed with. It is a way of life, it is constructive and oscillates between humorous and enraging. Don't cut yourself short, these people here are all worth getting to know and this is one of the methods in which to do so. Take it from a grizzley old (cave) bear.
Little Nemo
Twoflower, are you still having problems with Slumberland net messages, or is everything working OK now?
Angela Davis
As I said, I'll ask Noel about him the next time I see her, and let you all know what she thinks.
Goliath
God save us. Like MARCH 1988?!?!?! Four years ago? Geez, if he had been convicted of rape he'd probably be out by now. Who cares about 4 years ago?
Beowulf
Perhaps Twoflower is right. I would hate to think that any man who refers to women as "sluts" is right about anything. I guess the only one that can clarify this is "Gypsy". If you folks don't mind my giving a non-sysop access to this room, I'll let her respond for herself. Who knows, this might be enlightening for me as well.
Livia
Network Admin and WAN Admin (and in a more specialized way, Twit List and Bug
Reports) are for "free exchange of information by sysops". Synergy Unltd is
intended for "ideas"; they can also be posted in the Admin rooms. Sysop Forum
has been the sysop flame room for at least
three years: i.e., that IS its purpose; it doesn't need to fulfill the 'free
exchange' purpose, since that's already amply taken care of.
The sysops that can't handle the idea of a sysop flame room must have an overidealistic view of human nature and human interaction. Or maybe they're just not very good at flaming. :)
The Great Zod
It's really too bad that Menolly has decided that she "hates my guts." Oh well, I guess it would be expected considering who her sister is.
As to asking her, I might point out that she of all people would be the most biased towards you.
Three messages in a row? Geez. You must be getting frustrated.
But then, most would be yuppies are these days. Tough life and all, especially with the current state of affairs..
Zod's Friend
Gosh, I wonder why Beo had a lovely Christmas card from Gypsy, if she hates his guts so much, geesh!
Having only had a minute amount of contact with Menolly, the only reason I see for her to hate my guts is that I presumably stole her sisters married boyfriend, which of course is a myth.
I find all of this rather droll and irrelevent, don't the rest of you?
Zod's Friend
Livia is right. I remember when i was given access to this room 3 years ago that there was a big battle of some sort to do with Dragon, JJ, and Zen master, and I also remember thinking, with all the stuff going on in here, who needs tv, this was ( and still is) far more interesting. I remember thinking, is this stuff for real and laughing hysterically, never imagining that I too would some day be caught up in the on going saga of this room.
Let's face it, Sysops need a place to let off steam away from the general populace of the BBS community, although sometimes it does tend to get a bit to personal for my taste.
Twoflower
Actually, I entered 3 messages because I wanted to make sure I got my information correct from Beowulf's posts. I didn't bother using the abort/enter old commands.
And Zod, you have always (as long as I have known you) had an extremely prejudice view of people who have significantly more money than you (which I don't, but I'm sure my parents do). Not that that is in the lease bit surprising, from your obvious 'me me me!' complex (gotta have 4 women, gotta have beer, gotta have a good time, gotta have money. Oops, don't have money. Oh, then, people with money must be shits. Ah. Makes sense.)
And, ZF, I never said Menolly hated your guts. She just dislikes you. Always has, always will.
Beowulf
The system could easily be used for the discussion of net ideas. Take for example the idea of Milliways running the network. I realize to small minds the idea of someone, or ones, running the network means secret police, discipline being forced upon them, a dictator, etc., but when 9 out of 38 people posting in Synergy, were posting from Milliways, the topic was actually moving. When Jeremiah Johnson/test account/GridMaker, and Zen Master/Flying Wombat, were running it, most of the topics stayed on line. When Dragon ran the network the network actually grew. In the cases where there was someone running the network, they took a great deal of flak. To the point that Dragon is gone, and Zen Master/Flying Wombat and Jeremiah Johnson/test account/GridMaker are hardly see or heard anymore. The sysops from Milliways, on the other hand, started arguing amongst themselves in Synergy Unltd. Now the topic is being used to plan a party. The Milliways sysops, (and livia was misleading, over half of them were also logging in from other boards) were spared the harassment.
On to personal matters, I have left a message for Gypsy, but don't know when she might be getting back to me. Would you prefer that we deal with this slander aspect, in it's entirety, before we move on to the next bit of slander. Shall I handle both delusions of child abuse and woman abuse, at the same time. Or should we just take for granted that the liar could not prove woman abuse, and move on to his charge of child abuse? The final choice is to accept that Twoflower has no honor, and, as such, ignore him?
Angela, Noel like the Last Exit. You might be able to cross paths with her there. If you do talk to her, find out how much of what she speaks is personal knowledge, and how much is just too flowery gospel.
Joe Carrasquillo
I personally want to meet Angela Davis, JJ, Livia, San San, Twoflower, Park (caren), Zen Master and Heather Scott at the summer meetings before I take off.
Techno Destructo
heh I see that no one can even agree to the purpose of the room, yet I think I will go with the more productive ideas of exchange of ideas & info, and ignore the flaming. As soon as a topic comes up that doesn't concern name calling, or questioning of someones honor, I think I'll participate, I just don't see any use in expelling all that energy to try and piss someone off.
Zod's Friend
Well Steve, I must say I'd take that over pizza anyday, I love fishing! In fact, I would dearly love to do Westport again, even though my last visit to the waters there were less than pleasent( big waves, body being slammed against the boat as I caught not one, but two limits of fish, that's 30 of the little buggers, and worrying about if I'd make it back alive!)but I'd glady do it all again! So do we have any other fishermen(persons) out there?
Capt. sir, what is MUD?
2F, you should try sleeping at night. Oh yeah, and when are you gonna live on your own and get out from under mommas apron strings?
The Great Zod
Well Twoflower, maybe I should've said something about spoiled rich kids.
Oh well.
Reports have it that nobody really listens to you anyway.
And you can't believe all you hear (oh yeah, you know me well personally, right).
You aren't really worth the effort to continue this. If I do, it is only because I am enjoying it. :)
Beowulf
Actually Techno, if you feel attracted to the bickering and slander, it would be better if you excluded this room. I have seen what it has done to the people that it's childishness has drawn in. Some of which have even had to seek professional help.
On the other hand, it does provide a wonderful place to practise self-discipline:)
Okay, I can understand smelt:) I probably would have grabbed my 12 yearold and headed down had I known:) But what is MUD?
Ferris Bueller
Who need re-runs of the Brady Bunch??
Beowulf
I can't think of a single event, in the past, that was attended by all those people, Joe. That aside, where the heck are you going?
Did someone say something about Westport? I usually try to get out there a couple times a year. The main problem I have, is giving the fish away, not being fond of seafood, myself.
Oh Angela, remember when you see Noel that the question asked was whether I respect women, not whether Noel likes me. (And from me, whether that judgement is based on her experiences as my roommate, or on information supplied to her by Twoflower and friends.)
Twoflower
Zod's just jealous that he is usually close to broke.
And Beowulf, you said in a certain room on Mayday at one time that 'child abuse build character.'
Little Nemo
I don;t wish to be involved in this, dammit...
But I will point out, in answer to ZF's "momma's apron strings" comment, that Twoflower is moving to Seattle in late March and will be quite on his own then.
I would also like to point out that, as far as I'm concerned, BOTH sides of this discussion got WAY out of line quite a while ago.
I don't support name-calling on either side. I'd prefer to see a reasonable discussion instead of all the little digs and name-calling. You are ALL making yourselves look worse and worse everytime you post.
You don't HAVE to shut up. In fact, the arguments are kind of entertaining -- but in a slimy sort of way. And none of them make me gain any respect for anyone involved.
Just a thought or two.
Livia
Beowulf still thinks Twoflower/Milliways are trying to take over the net.
The Great Zod says to Twoflower that "reports have it that nobody really listens
to you anyway".
I guess Zod isn't getting his info from Beowulf. :)
ford prefect
beo, do you actually have any friends at all?
or are you lamely believing that anyone who treats you semi-civilly actually cares and loves you?
acquaintances aren't friends, and i highly doubt that anyone in their right mind would actually get close enough to you, to find out your true self.
what are you trying to prove here, anyway?
take mayday 1 back off the net. find some lame group of people you can mislead and deceive. fuck around, for you will, but leave the rest of us alone.
Techno Destructo
I've never had smelt, aren't those the little fish that commit hari kari? how do you cook them? As for Bickering, well I think I've had enough to last a lifetime, I just try and avoid it because I don't need the stress. I would like to meet more of the area sysops too, though not all the ones mentioned in the other post.
Naut Humon
you know, this isn't even a very fun sysop war.
the insults from beowulf are too spread-out, too bizarrely unbelievable, and never repeated again (one new attack per msg?) to be trustworthy.
i see a venom in twoflower that is incredible. and here i had hoped that it could have been ME who was the biggest thorn in 2's side in the past.
but 'slut'?? 'drunk fuck'??
twoflower, you're getting downright human. you better be careful, or i might end up actually liking you, and THEN where would you be?
anyway, i'm not going to say who's right or wrong (twoflower), but i really think you people need to work on being brutal to one another. you're forcing twoflower to carry the load, and that's not fair.
Twoflower
Actually, I'll be 'on my own' when I finish school. As long as I am going to school, I will receive some amount of financial support from my parents. I prefer to finish school (or at least some degree) before heading off to a long series of low paying jobs. Maybe if I get a degree, I might even get a higher paying job. I don't want to get stuck in the rut of 'just being able to make it' that I see many people in today (or the rut of 'just not quite being able to make it.')
And, what is your definition of a 'rich spoiled brat'? Someone who's parents have enough money to live fairly comfortably, with some extra left over for savings and leisure? I wouldn't put that down. I'd say it'd be preferable to someone who's parents DON'T have enough money.
Agressiva
is it really necessary to drag people into this that cannot speak for themselves?
it's bad enough you're wanking your mouths continually for the rest of us to next (constantly), but i wish you could have the decency to not put words into other people's mouths as well. . .
of course, anything to protect the precious ego, i suppose.
Flying Wombat
Kid C: since it wasn't Zod's Friend, did you go back and find out whose message it >was< that was trying to drag me into the battles? as far as I can see, Beowulf is the only one who has been trying to smear me lately, which I usually ignore, since he doesn't seem to be convincing anyone.
if one is interested in seeing the rest of this war, the Relationships room seems to be quite full of it. since someone mentioned seeing it: I don't know anyone who still calls Mayday, or else I'd know how much hate-talk has been posted this time. they don't know it, but we were netting the old Stonehenge "Network Information" room, and there was certainly a lot of inflammatory gossip going on there. some things don't seem to change...
Angela Davis
My level of respect for the following people has reduced: Beowulf, Twoflower, Great Zod, Zod's Friend.
My level of respect for the following person has increased: Little Nemo.
The Great Zod
*SYNTAX ERROR - FATAL
"Jealous that he is usually close to broke"?
I'm laughing too hard to continue this....
Zod's Friend
Good thoughts Little Nemo. I generally don't like to be involved, but have felt compelled to respond in kind at times to the BS that is being said about myself and Zod, especially when so much of it is based on a onesided viewpoint. Zod and I have made a lot of mistakes and are now trying to build our life together for the better of Zod's son, who needs the stability we can offer him thru help in all areas of his life. His schoolwork is suffering due to the fact that the person who was helping with this now no longer can, and it is obvious that he's not getting any help from his mother, which is sad, because he's in a special program and needs to keep his grades up to stay in it. School may be only one aspect of a childs life, but is the foundation of what is to come later in life. Perhaps this is rambling but doggone it, I'm tired of all this. Zod's son IS the most impt. prson in his life, and if it hadn't been for his inability to work due to an on the job injury, his son would be with him.
We now return you to regulary schd. programming(whatever that is!) :)
Naut Humon
i'm a totally spoiled brat, and an asshole.
but i've still got a lovable personality.
just call me 'naut humon bear'.
Grendel
MUD = Multi-User Dungeon. Popular on the Internet.
I sense that the Beo/Zod/Zod's Fucktoy faction are attempting to gain network superiority and become the new reigning power bloch now that last year's Gulf Flamewar has yet to establish a New Network Order with the reigning JJ/Zen Master faction leading the Milliways/Twof's Buds faction.
The Great Zod
I'm rather more interested in your definition of child abuse, as you are attibuting Beowulf to be a proponent, while he has never claimed the bend.
Or is it just a handy label you grabbed to attempt to gain a rise in status?
Some details might be interesting, along with direct quotes..
Beowulf
Thank you, Little Nemo. Your message, though not as entertaining as Maven's sanity checks, was quite to the point.
I would like livia to quote a single message of mine, in here, that said that Twoflowers and Milliways are (noting present tense) running the network. I believe she is in error, and/or reading in inferences that she wishes to. If she can, I will apologize to her and Twoflower, for saying such.
Someone mentioned something about my encouraging child abuse. I do recollect that, in "Parental Rights" (a topic I opened to discuss the rights of noncustodial parents, Jeremiah Johnson kept entering messages about child abuse, that were responded to by Lady Almathea, Lestat, Zen Master, and JoAnne) that I said something to the effect of "Some of the best adults I know, have come from abusive situations, and some of the worst adults from non-abusive". Further, as a personal belief, I do believe that spanking(which the the five of them did consider child abuse), to be a responsibility of parenthood. Each child, and what they require is different, but the children I have seen that have grown up without spanking have ended up as adults, with an attitude problem. Meanwhile, I have two wonderful boys that continue to win sports and scholastic awards, and civil honors. That are open-minded and have a well developed sense of humor. They are resfreshing to be with after reading these sysop rooms.
Beowulf
Speaking about behavior, someone here had mentioned my disrespect for women. As I recall that person habitually referred to women in a sexually demeaning way. Somehow the point was to equate my supposed disrespect for women with his sexually demeaning attitude toward them.
First let me say that talking about my "respect for women" is just a further example of sexist attitude. It is more appropriate to talk about my respect for people. Though, many have sought my advice about interaction with their sexual preference, no one here, or elsewhere on the boards has even mentioned 'respect for people'. So folks, here it come:)
Decades ago, an acquaintence told me that the secret to scoring with women was to 'treat ladies like whores, and whores like ladies'. I observed him for sometime, and became aware that he had an attitude problem and was mostly unsuccessful, though failure never diverted him from his philosophy. Following this observation, I noted that among the sane (not destructive to themselves or others) there are two types of people (actually there are many types but for the purpose of this, two will do nicely), people with an attitude problem and everyone else. Now, if you treat the "everyone else" fairly, with respect, and dignity, they will respond in a positive manner. The people with an attitude problem you tolerate, though, in truth, you don't have to because they really aren't important. (Everytime I have made an exception to this rule, it has resulted in a counterproductive situation.)
(Hope that's better, Little Nemo:)
Twoflower
Relationships room?
Not the old one from back when AOA was a public system?
Zod's Friend
Oh I see, so now, when I defend myself and Zod, I'm A "fucktoy" (guess that makes a certain other user an ex-"fucktoy" as well as a slut of Zod's, I mean all things being equal of course) and we are trying to take over the net. Zod and I have no in tention of doing so, and as for Beowulf, he's on his own. Zod already has figured out after watching others try, that whomever is the most predominate poster in any given Sysop room, becomes the supposed "netgod" of the week and is sumerrily pounced on by everyone.
Do you people stay up late at night and think this stuff up on your own, or do you burn up the phone lines aclling one another to come up with it collectively. I mean geesh, Twoflower stops calling me a "slut" and Grendel goes back into me being a "fucktoy". You people must not have another life besides your modem personas. A lot of you who are active in this little debate are young and obviously haven't learned about casting the first stone, which of course is a biblical term I use only in reference having spent a great deal of time in the organized religion that uses the book.
A lot of you have done plenty that could be used against you in the manner that my relationship with Zod has been. Speaking of relationships - yes 2F there is a relationships room on the net, It's actually survived more then a month, and is currently dealing with STD's and joint custody, and is quite a lively room. There are at least 6 boards picking it up.
Techno Destructo
Ya know (I'm being sucked in here) I know Zod & Zod's freind fairly well and see them often, I don't think they are bad people or I wouldn't be seeing them so often. As for ZF being a "Fucktoy", well I think thats a pile, they have an excellant relationship together, despite many hurdles, if two people are happy together why bash them?
Beowulf
Oh I have quite a few friends. As an example, this last weekend I went to Boeing Surplus with Chuck Tibbs. I consider Chuck a friend. I am the godfather of his daughter. Now he and I have been friends for 25 years. In the intervening years I have picked up 2 to 4 new friends, each year. They've named kids after me. Quit common jobs because I was fired. Heck, I've been best man at seven weddings (including Chuck's, of course). I get more Christmas cards from ex-lovers (presuming that I can count an ex-wife as an ex-lover), than there are members of my sexual preference involved in this conversation. No, I'm not worried about having friends. You treat normal people with respect and dignity, and they respond positively. Give it a try sometime.
Take Mayday 1 off the network? Perish the thought! Mayday 1 will be around forever (sorry, I could never get the Strange Laughter annotation down quite right:)
Beowulf
Also, we may be running into a definition problem, again. To me, "Love" is an emotional state characterized by euphoria and obsession(in varying degrees). That doesn't really relate to friendship.
The emotions that apply to friendship are trust, respect, and compassion
(though many believe compassion, to be an aspect of "Love").
ford prefect
quite amazing.
but in only one sense - everyone involved has personal, emotinonal agendi that they attempt to portray in a technical forum.
i just don't think this working.
there should probably be a different room for this sort of thing..
'i hate you because..' sounds good.
anyone want to net it?
Twoflower
Well, Beowulf, it's nice that you pointed out that you have respect for 'everyone' and not just women.
I was going to ask, since I became a 'person without honor' only after I called ZF a 'slut', but not when I called Zod a 'dumb drunk fuck.'
Seems to me to be a sexist double standard here.
Or maybe he agrees that Zod is a dumb drunk fuck.
I don't know.
He just hasn't been clear on any point he's tried to make.
And I could care less if people think i have 'honor' or they respect me; what I care about is that people view me as I feel and who I really am, not what airs I'm putting on just to look good. If I treat someone nice, then that means I like them, or at least don't know them and are giving them the benefit of the doubt. If I treat someone like shit, then that's because I think they are shit. If I ignore them, then that means I really don't care one way or another about them, or don't think they are worth listening to. If I'm mad and spout a lot of garbage, as least people know I'm mad. Speaking my mind angers people, confuses people, and breaks social mores and folkways, but at least I'm at peace inside, knowing that I'm not being false, or if I am, it's to myself as well as everyone else.
If I have made any comments based upon other people's observations that were truly incorrect, then I appologize. (This is directed toward Beowulf only.) Some of what I have said has been based upon rumors or second hand accounts, and the transmission may have been garbled to some extent.
But there are still many comments I have made that are based upon my own observations which I still hold as perfectly true.
And, Zod, just how much DOES disability pay, or have you finally stopped living off the state and your former employers and gotten a job? (I would construe, from ZF's message, that you are still on disablity and not making enough to support your son, who you'd like to have at your house, but cannot due to your lack of funds.)
Oh, wait, I just reread her message and it says that if you hadn't been on disablity, you'd have your son now.
So if you've got a job and are making enough to support him now, why don't you go back to court (which you seem so fond of) and get some custody rights?
Livia
Beowulf: so you said Milliways WAS (trying to) run the network, rather than Milliways IS blah blah blah. That doesn't change any of my points about how absurd the concept of 'controlling the net' is in general or in relation to Milliways.
So who's the new flavor of the week?
The Maven
Whether I speak for other's is of little import, Zod's Friend, but that fact that you've spent a great deal of time in organized religion is a mark against your intelligence, not for it... at least in my book (which WAS the one I was reading)
Techno Destructo: When a certain level of venom builds up on one's system, one finds excuses to bash rather than waiting for reasons. You see, it's rather uncomfortable to have that much venom in your brain and your brain wants to have blood instead, so it does anything it can to get rid of it. So you become an asshole or at least act like one (see Zod, Zod's Friend, Twoflower and usually Beowolf as examples)
Saphyre
Well, Joe you may have to go to several different events to meet all of the people you want...WHERE are you taking off to.....SEND ME MAIL!
Little Nemo, I'd have to agree, it's out of hand even for sysop forum, but it is sysop forum afterall so at least it is happening where it belongs insted of in the middle of an intelligent conversation in another room
NightHawk
after reading this room methinks a few people need to develop a life
Twoflower
I think Livia and Amber are trying to control the network this week.
Just look at how many times she's corrected people in their grammar.
Grendel
oooh, OUCH!
Put on the Abestos ladies and gents, I think it is about to get real warm in here.
ford prefect
hmm.
beowulf, for some reason i think you're lying. perhaps in a different forum, or a different age, i might coem to respect you but currently, you're no better than those poor fools in bolgia 2. with their heads twisted on backwards and shit dribbling from their mouths, the aimlessly struggle on to a meaningless existance for eternity.
if someone once called me long-winded, i shoow them someone much worse.
and if livia and amber were trying to control the net, i would be much less appalled.
Techno Destructo
Beo - Strange laughter "muh ha ha ha" and I tend to agree with the love viewpoint, it is mainly an obsession thing, you ever notice that when you know someone as a friend and then fall in love, that the friendship won't make it through the love break-up
Naut Humon
but it does make awfully amusing reading.
and once again, i'd like to remind everyone to treat zen monster as the pathetic twisted sociopath he is.
Twoflower
Grendel, I resent it being said that my faction is being led by JJ/ZM.
My faction for net control is independent, though working very closely with Livia's Amber faction. We have also turned to the Little Nemo/Slumberland faction for advice on how to make our run for power popular with the regular sysop.
In our next move to discredit the rival factions of B/TZG/ZF and JJ/ZM, we will reveal that Beowulf has been sleeping with Julia Roberts, and that Zen master was caught in this high school gym locker room shooting up heroin in 1974. Also, we will downplay reports that Agressiva removed all net code from his software, and that the Livia/Amber faction have secretly dropped all communication with my Milliways faction and will now be allied with the Cave Bear faction.
We will then go on to make the next Coffee Break (University Villiage Round Table Pizza, March 14th) a fundraiser for the Milliways faction, and we will skew a poll of 13 sysops to show that the Milliways faction leads in popularity by a score of 7, to Livia/Amber's 3, B/TGZ/ZF's 2, Texas's 1, and JJ/ZM's 0.
During the April fund rai-I mean, Coffee Break, we will have to deal with angry protesters who believe that the Tacoma faction (secretly headed by Mucous and Kaptain Kmart, who's whole war was a set up) have gained control of the network. 3 members of the Texas Faction will fly in to protest any Northwest intrest having control of the net, and we will have 2 protesters arrested by brutal Topic Police.
In the months following we will have to deal with a new, angry Atlanta Faction, headed by Pretty Eyes, but secretly backed by her mother, ISIS, but the Milliways Faction will also gain support through the Mad Hatchet/Beast Master Faction when I offer li-SA! to Mad Hatchet in an under-the-table deal.
There will also be the rise of the Heather R. Scott/Memory Alpha Faction, and also a coup attempt by the Saphyre/Shades Faction.
Just exactly who controls the network in all this is in the eye of the beholder, of course.
(Gosh, that was the most enjoyable post I've made in a networked room in quite a while...)
Angela Davis
I can't believe it. I can't fucking believe it. I'm a-fucking-stonished. The man is telling us how many friends he has. Now, Twoflower is just being abusive, but that is downright dysfunctional.
Angela Davis
How does one get ahold of Gremlin?
Beowulf
I created "Network Information" as a place for netsops to discuss changes in their netlinks, in the view of their users. In other words it was Read-Only, but postable by the console sysops.
At present the room is empty. The only boards that legimately carry it are "Chateau Aspen", "Mayday 1", "Outer Limits", "Seattle's Wet Dream", "Shades of Blue", and "Snow Cave". I think it still exists on the only remaining Stonehenge "System 4086/3", but it has been awhile since I called there.
If the room is being picked up without the permission of one the boards listed above, the covert nature of the act is counter to the character of the topic. (Since the topic, on the boards listed above is empty, and Zen Master/Flying Wombat is having conversations in there, it would seem likely that he, or one of his netlinks, is requesting it without a reciprocal connection.)
The Great Zod
Twoflower, you seem to be running under the assumption that I chose to be on L&I benefits. Wrong.
I had bilateral carpal tunnel syndrome, caused (or at least worsened to a critical point) by my duties at work. The symptoms include tingling and numbness in the fingers, and can be (as was) accompanied by sharp pain running through the wrist, along the path of the median nerve in the arm.
Untreated, the numbness becomes permanent, and all tactile sensation in the fingers is forever lost.
Are you tracking yet?
As to the rest of your questions, in order;
Timeloss benefits are paid according to an algorythm which takes into account your pay level and hours for the quarter precending the injury/onset of "disease" (their term, not mine), as well as the number of dependants in the household. In my case, 67% of the part time I was working due to pain.
I was not "living off of the state": I was recieving my due benefits as an injured worker. The length of the claim was entirely due to the way the state handled it.
I was released back to work, and began working again for the first time in 27 months last month.
My income is none of your concern, and the custody situation is still in the courts, where it will be at least until a workable compromise is reached, or trial in May.
You are interpreting ZF's message to a degree, however things would be slightly different now had my claim been handled more efficiently. I would have won the race to the courthouse, and would have the default custody that Carolyn now has.
As to the "dumb drunk fuck" angle, after having some legal consultation recently, I recommend strongly you desist.
You already pointed out (erroneously) that I was court happy, and you really don't want to hang yourself..
The Great Zod
I actually liked that one :)
Beowulf
May I point that Livia said "Beowulf still thinks that Twoflower/Milliways are trying to take over the net.", in her message of 2/12. Which is patently false, and unsupportable. (Note the accreditation and quote marks:)
Many people here appear to believe that their respect is something of value. In order for that to be true, they need to be respected. In all seriousness, does anyone here believe that I respect Angela Davis, Livia, Twoflower, or ford perfect? For me, to lose their respect rates up their with finding out that I have been dropped from Richard Nixon's Christmas card list. It is not very important, and a little silly.
As far as Twoflower goes, anyone that refers to a woman as a "slut" is dealing with female sexuality in a demeaning way. No one has a right, or privilege, class or cliche, to do so. It is an abomination everywhere, but with his friends. This is why I do not respect his friends, and why I believe him to be without honor.
(Referring to Twoflower's lack of honor as being gender biased, is not sexist. "Slut", unfortunately, is only demeaning to women.)
ford prefect
beowulf's ridiculous pontificating will bore us all eventually, but i'm sure some of us will gain some practice in reaming before he wears out.
zod's continued defence of twoflower's almost ludicrous claims is hilarious.
i'm afraid, zod, you've been had. twoflower created some close-but-not-really accurate claims against your personality, and you continue to defend them needlessly.
what do you, zod, expect to gain by arguing this sad and tired point into the ground? the jury's out, has been, left the building. if anyone actually believes your self-piting prose then that's their own funeral, but your continued vocal vomit isn't convincing anyone else.
beowulf and zod are the ultimate in manifestations of hopeless futility.
ford prefect
and if beowulf deigns to spell my nym 'perfect' rather than what it is, it just shows a remarkable immaturity.
am i 'just as bad' if i've neglected to address zod with his self-appointed appellation of greatness?
i think not.
Zod's Friend
Exactly, Nighthawk, they need to develop a life and leave other peoples alone. I'd love to know where you people get your tiresome information, although I suspect it comes from two individuals who are poor loosers in this little scenario we've all been dancing around with. So yeah, why don't you people get a life and stay out of mine and Zod's, neither of us gives a damn what you think of us, we only detest the name calling, especially when we aren't even allowed to attempt to reciprocate. We will continue to love one another despite the crap you all fling, so fling away, as we rather enjoy watching you all top one another with continued inaccuracies. Some day you young people will learn to treat one another in a kinder way.
Angela Davis
Now all the rest of you have to do, is claim that you think Beowulf is being a jerk, too, and he'll say he never liked you, either.
Beowulf
Yea and verily it came to pass that Twoflower went out among the people of Citadel, and spake thus, "No one controls the network. Anyone that blasphemies by disagreeing with me, will be lied about, slandered, harassed, and ridiculed."
From that back a small voice spake, "Excuse me, but doesn't that mean that you control the network?"
Twoflower, in his wisdom was not vexed. "Do you not know the book of livia, wherein it is written 'Nobody rules the net. Some people have more influence that others, but this is always shifting. Even Dragon, in the days when all netting Cits were DragCits, couldn't shut up people who weren't ready to shut up, or make people adopt a policy they really didn't like, either.'"
A child stepped forward, saying "I still don't see the difference."
A look of compassion briefly crossed our lord's face. "Take this child out and have her stoned, for she is a slut."
Twoflower
So, Beowulf, you do not respect Little Nemo? Saphyre? San San? Fine with me... I'd say it'd be up to them to create 'respect' in anyone's eyes, and should not be based upon the fact that they are 'friends' with someone who you dislike. It seems to me that that kind of reasoning is irrational at best.
Please, Beowulf, come up with something other than my calling ZF a 'slut' to harp on. It's getting extremely repetitious. If you really hate, then it should be based upon more than that. I'd personally like to hear it. Maybe you should mail it to me so as not to upset the rest of the network anymore than has been with name calling.
(And as for it being demeaning only to women, as Texas pointed out in Topic Drift, words have different meanings in different circles. In the convention circle, 'slut' can refer to a male or female in the same derogatory manner. Or non-derogatory, depending on who you say it to. Some would take it as a complement, though exactly why I've never been able to fathom.)
And, as much as 'slut' may have been my term for an opinion, adultery would have been the legal term.
And Zod, if 'dumb drunk fuck' is slander (because it can be concidered derogatory), then I'd say 'rich spoiled brat' is derogatory as well and could be concidered slander.
Get better legal advice, or tell your adviser EVERYTHING. Not just what you want him/her to know. Lawyers don't like to get shafted because their clients didn't tell them a few details about what THEY did.
Livia
That was my message of 2-11, Beowulf. On 2-12, I responded to your whines
about tense, and said (and I do quote) "so you said Milliways WAS (trying to)
run the network, rather than Milliways IS".
Don't waste your energy on fighting accusations that have already been
retracted.
Beowulf
I may not have any respect for you, Ford, but I am not intentionally misspelling your 'nym. I will try to be more careful in the future.
Kid Charlemagne
twoflower:
you forgot the err head/BILGE faction or the very covert influence of the Kid Charlemagne/Gentleman Loser consortium, at present merely a secret society, but we DO plan on a net takeover very soon. and never forget the maven. he just might have something in the works for this net too... ":)
that is, if the Zog/She-Zog/Li'l Devil syndicate doesn'tbeat him to it. ":)
ford prefect
have i used the word 'pontificating' in your direction yet, beowulf?
ford prefect
if you spent half of your life
in this god-awful place
yo uwill swear that you've only grown older
if you treat everyone you know
with patience and kindness
you will not know yourself for much longer..
Grendel
dumb drunk fuck
so sue me
Techno-Destructo
The post about the child being stoned was most humorous. (just thought I'd let you know
The Great Zod
Hell, I'm having a great time :)
Funeral? By statistical figuring I still have at least 40 years to go.
And to drift from the other room, Outer Limits is another BBS being run by a BBS author. I may port it over yet in Qbasic just to piss people off sometime this summer. (who knows :)
For them that forgets, Outer Limits was the ONLY non-IBM node to cron-net with Stonehenge...on a C= 64 no less. If the algorythms for Y-modem were a bit more available, would've been with cit too (a gateway was an idea I thought of).
As for defense, I really don't need to offer any. People know what they know, and what they think they know, and I have found that not much will change minds once they have decided on what constitutes "truth". The banter does keep my logon's interesting though :)
brent
angela: i would just give him i phone call if i wanted to get ahold of gremlin.
Techno Destructo
Well it keeps it very interesting for me Zod, its kinda like watchin' People's Court, just need judge Wopner now.
Zen master
interesting, the misuse of present tense in the remarks about the old Stonehenge "Network Information" room. it hasn't been carried on this net since Stonehenge disappeared, so the insinuations are not only moot but irrelevant. it was, of course, sufficient for us to read the room on Crystal Dragon to see the sort of misinformation which was being posted there, and get an idea of the amount of mindfuck which dominated the Stonehenge group at that time.
maybe we should put together a networked feature called "The Best of Networking.."
oh, Twoflower: the "Relationships" room I net is the same old net-wide one you've probably seen elsewhere. it's definitely still a battle zone...
Agressiva
(now, who here wouldn't accept an under-the-table lisa?)
twoflower says: zod, your life is a mess, so you had better just shut up.
bad form.
zod's friend says: shut up children and get a life outside the boards. shut up children and get a life outside the boards. shut up children and get a life outside the boards. shut up children. . .
rather obvious.
beowulf says: goo. that is, i am quite tired of this pointless conversation being dragged on when it is so obvious that i am right and you are not. ba ha ha.
tiresome.
NightHawk
Zod's Friend.
Now when have I ever stooped to mudslinging on a bbs, hmmm?
I don't believe I've ever met you, so I certainly wouldn't bother
'flinging crap' in your direction. My comments about people needing a
life were directed at the group overall because it seems that several
people tend to take the BBS's just a bit more seriously than is good for
their own peace of mind. Maybe that's just a result of my not being all
that involved in the modem world, even where my own bbs is concerned.
I am glad to hear that you and Zod love each other and will continue to do so
but please don't lump me in with those who regularly flame all over
each other, I've usually got better things to do with my time. (No
complaints to being lumped into the 'young people' group though :) )
Don't automatically assume that every one is ready to attack you and
Zod, even if alot of people do.
If you've found my comments objectionable, that's too bad, if you ever
meet me in person you can tell me what a jerk I am, K?
0 0
^ ^
\___/
V|V
^
NightHawk
Twoflower
Well, gee, I've never been called god before.
I think I'll have Beowulf stoned as well. Just because he can't make any arguments with any substance.
The Great Zod
Twoflower:
One is slander.
The other is merely putting down.
Grendel:
Don't even start..
Kid Charlemagne
Simple Instructions for Getting Rid of a Net-Pest
-------------------------------------------------
step 1. using the appropriate command, stop current message scan.
step 2. log out of whatever account you are presently using.
step 3. shut down the terminal/BBS/mail reader program you are using.
step 4. power down the computer you are using.
step 5. go do something else. (note: yakking on a CB radio is
NOT a recommended alternative to BBS'ing.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
the point is, 2F is "interfering" in y'all's lives because (get this!) you LET HIM INTERFERE.
these are merely WORDS ON A SCREEN (if you are zen, they're text in a file too, but that's a minor point.)
don't you think maybe you're all attaching a lot of importance to words on a screen? does the computer rule your life? if so, get cable TV, it's not nearly as personal and it has C-SPAN for the sociopolitical bullshit you crave so much....
in other words, GET A LIFE. thank you.
Cave Bear
That was cute 2F, liked it. I don't have a faction though unless you count Saphyre and San San.
Bran Tregare
Angela, a GOOD start is his phone number :)
Cave Bear
Opps, wrong key. In reply to my destination, I'm headed south to see my mommy and sister in San Juan, Puerto Rico (home) and to see about a possible transfer while I'm there. Hey! How does "Mi Casa, Su Casa" PR, USA sound? I could link with Rena :)
Beowulf
Thanks Techno, I have a few more pieces of scripture that I wasn't going to post, but two boards have already asked if they can use it as an HELLO.BLB. I may change my mind about posting them.
The objection to posting them stems from a desire to be boring, and repetitious. Like continuing to remind everyone that Twoflower is without honor because he treats women in a sexually demeaning manner(i.e. by the use of the term "slut").
Livia
Angela: I tried to call Gremlin several times today. Maybe I'll try again right now...
Twoflower
Zod:
Give your defintion of slander.
the webster's seventh new collegiate says slander is : a false and defamatory oral statement about a person.
1. I watched you often get drunk.
2. I listened to you and your arguements, and I concider them dumb.
3. 'fuck' is used at an explicative with little meaning besides I don't like you.
to me, none of that statement is false. But then again, I can see how you would think so.
1. I don't concider myself very rich. My parents are relatively well off, but not rich.
2. I don't concider myself spoiled.
3. I find 'brat' to be an offensive term with derogatory meaning.
Under my feelings, and by webster's definition, it would be concidered slander. I can see how you, being of little financial resources, might concider me rich, and that I am spoiled by my parents because they like me enough to support me through school.
It could be called either way.
But I'm not the one who's threatening a lawsuit, which many people on this net find to be extremely offensive.
Twoflower
Beowulf, as Menolly paraphrased to me tonight (after I told her about your rebuttal to the 'child abuse' statements):
'That is not all he said. Either in the Child Abuse room, or another room on Mayday, Beowulf suggested that a little bit of child abuse would be good for tempering a child, much as a little bit of hardship builds character. This is very dangerous because even a small amount of child abuse can cause problems with self esteem, views of authority, and views of what is 'normal' and acceptable.'
Twoflower
She also did not believe that my statements about her disliking Beowulf and ZF and hating Zod were strong enough. She is in the process of forming her thoughts upon the subject, as I felt I should not speak for others in this room, and I will relay her thoughts to you once she has calmed down enough to make a statement. She was rather outraged at comments made by Beowulf and Zod which she concidered erronous or deliberately false.
And, when I relayed to her that I had posted about her saying that ZF was 'dumb', she said 'dumb isn't it. She's a complete idiot.'
I had no part in getting these statements from her (other than I asked her opinion.) They were made on her own.
Twoflower
Techno-Destructo: I fail to see any post about abuse of a child as humorous, but I had chosen to ignore Beowulf's obviously incorrect aligories, except in the most surface of manners. I feel my attempt at levity with my message about network control was humorous and not aimed at dragging anything through the mud, except the idea that anyone controls the network, and to point out that it is much like a great game of politics.
I see Beowulf felt differently. Maybe he took personal offense at my joking that he was sleeping with Julia Roberts, though most men would concider it an honor.
Angela Davis
Fast Fact Forum:
Uses of "slut" in Sysop Forum, 1992: 37
You all depress me. Twoflower, I'm ashamed of you. Beowulf is older, and
I understand how age can make one paranoid and bitter about things. But
you're still young. You've got much potential. Mixing yourself up in these
things doesn't help you. Do you get some pleasure out of it? Being a
semi-retired verbal combat veteran myself, I know the common motivations.
People who knowingly enter verbal combat do so out of a wish to:
1) sharpen logical and verbal skills.
2) eliminate or expose circular reasoning in
a. a particular argument which interests or is important to them.
b. general.
3) publically defame and defrock
a. a specific idiot or idiots who have wronged them.
b. all idiots, regardless of status.
4) bolster ego by watching messages force idiot into logical backpeddling.
5) Smash ego of idiot.
6) Shut idiot up.
7) Make self look good in eyes of observers.
8) Defend honor or interests of
a. self.
b. allies.
What I can't understand is, who shit on your parade? Why is it important
for you to call Zog and company drunks and sluts? As a newcomer, I'm often
expected to "read between the lines" when following Seattle's Citadel soap
opera. And your story just doesn't fit. It seems pretty clear that
somehow you've been wronged in a shakeup which took place a few years ago.
But how? And why does it still matter? Do the Franklin sisters fit into
this somehow? Just who fucked whom to bring us to this point?
You know, when I was in junior high school, dumb people would occasionally
mock me. It was their way of feeling powerful. At first, I fought back.
Sometimes, I'd whip them around with a few multisylabic words. Sometimes,
they'd still laugh. Because I wasn't what they were, and they had to hammer
on differences to validate themselves.
But you know what I figured out? That I'll have the last laugh. They'll
mock me for enjoying school. But I'll get a college degree and solid
foundation so that I have the power to buy and sell them. And they'll mock
me for playing with computers, but I'll get a job which pays money by the
bundle just for smiling pretty.
Now I'm nearly sitting in that position. And where are they? Driving
trucks and mopping floors.
When people toss their barbs my way, I occasionally humor them by playing
along, but usually I just laugh it off. You see, their lives are
unimportant. They live in a depressing pit of broken dreams and paranoia.
And they want to drag me in with them, to keep them company and give them
something to bang on.
But why do you play along? You don't need 1. You'll fail at 2, because
the logic is not circular. 3 was done years ago, but he doesn't care. 4?
5 and 6 are virtually impossible. 7? You're definitely failing on 7. So
is it 8? Then what's the fucking story? With details, this time. All this
vague crap just makes you look like a moron. If Beowulf's a tramp or a
womanizer, lay out the facts, in complete detail, and let US be the judges.
Zod and his friend have done this a few times in this conversation (regarding
his disability, etc.) and I respect them both more for it. We all fuck up.
But unless someone does something Truly Sinister, or is unrepentent about
some Evil thing they've done, it's not good dirt.
So what's this crap? Occasional vague name-dropping. Repetitive
undefended accusations. It reminds me of childhood arguments:
"Twoflower's a netgod!"
"No he isn't!"
"Yes he is!"
"No he isn't!"
"Yes he is!"
Do you seriously think anyone cares? Maybe some equally paranoid following,
but no real force. All one needs to do is remember the nature of the
network--the actual structure of the software involved--and the impossibility
of lasting tyrants is clear. So why mire yourself in this? Aren't they
giving you enough homework these days? And if there's actually some
foundation to any of this (the slut thing, etc.), why don't you just lay it
all down, in succinct, bloody detail, and let us judge for ourselves?
And fuck, boy, bone up on your misogyny: Don't you know "cunt" is a lot more
effective than "slut"? Shit.
Saphyre
Well, hurmpf!
I guess sitting back and being quiet doesn't keep your nym out of the fray. I am Twoflowers friend and Beo's, oh-oh...I'm in trouble now...
Respect? I'm a citadel sysop and I get talked about by people who have never met me and people who have met me and really have no clue as to who I am which is a heck of a lot of people. Who cares if there is respect on this network, I have better things to do with my time. Shit I didn't even show up at the last CB and there were several people who thought enough of me to talk a considerable ammount of shit behind my back.
This net does not breed respect and posts like these here in this room, though fun to read are a really good example of the net and how closly it resembles Peyton Place.
(Peyton Place for the youngsters was a old daytime soap opera that was all about who screwed who and who could stab who in the back better and faster)
Twoflower, I enjoyed your post it was well done....but why did I fall so low on the list don'tcha know I am responsible for a covert net takeover that surpasses all the rest...a virtual Watergate.
Have a really nice day folks!
Little Nemo
wow. Angelea. bravo.
Cave Bear: A PR link would be most cool. :)
Cave Bear
"YOU saw my blinker, bitch!" :)
She-Zog
yes Twoflower, your post concerning network control was quite amusing. that was worth reading the rest of this bloody rot for.
She-Zog
except for one question.... Zod's freind: to whom were you referring when you made mention of Zod's ex-lover and fellow BBS'r ? If you are going to make references to others in your posts, then you should have the guts to mention who they are.
Techno Destructo
Well if we would like to discuss Child abuse I'm sure I can shoot over to that hall & room, though I'd prefer not to, I know all about child abuse first hand, I was put through walls, had my hand put in door jambs and the door slammed etc... so if anyone should take offense it should be myself. I (in my own opinion of course) Don't see how Beo's little post was harmful, its kind of like adult humor in a magizine like Hustler, some of its pretty twisted, some mild but its all ment in humor. I found your post about network control was enjoyable also. I really think a lot of people take this medium to serious, its meant to be a hobby, hobbies are suppose to be enjoyable (again my opinion). Lets lighten up everybod.
Zod's Friend
I think we'd rather here it straight from the horses mouth ( to coin a phrase). I never really speant enough time with your precious little girlfriend for to have formulated such an opinion. She was nice to me on the few occasions I did meet her years ago. We really never had any in depth discussions. Personally, I think the fact that she is the sister of a sore looser has more to do with it than anything - you here something often enough, and after awhile you begin to believe it. I was around Zod a lot in the years you speak of, and sure he drank, but he was and still is a responsible drinker. I've seen people a who were quite drunk and got that way quite deliberately after drinking both a full bottle of wine washed down with a bottle of wine( he knows who he is, and I wont name him). this is irresponsible drinking in my book. I'm sure he didn't enjoy getting sick in front of others, but I don't think that poss. was considered b/4 he drank the stuff. Zod on the other hand would never do so, he knows his limits, and gennerally sticks to them, even when, as he has admitted, when he was using alchohol as medicine for lack of a pain killer that worked or didn't do him harm in the doses he had to take.
And BTW, until you, or someone close to you, lives with the pain of carpal tunnel, don't be so judgemental about someones use of one of the oldest forms of pain killer.
Beowulf
If you remember my post, I mentioned that Jeremiah Johnson, Lady Almathea, JoAnne, Zen Master, and Lestat, all took umbrage to my remarks in the "Parental Rights" topic. I was accused of name dropping because of this, but, it is my knowledge or belief that each of these, directly or indirectly, have access to this topic. That is why I mentioned their names specifically. None of them disagreed with what I said(though one or two should now), even though they disagree with my beliefs.
Thinking about it, Menolly wasn't on Mayday at that time. That would mean that she was probably getting information from Lestat. Not unusual considering they're sisters.
So, we have a woman making character judgements about someone that she doesn't know, based on secondhand information, in defense of the man she loves. What can we truly expect from a man without honor?
JoAnne
Good grief, Angela! You aren't >really< counting the words, are ya? :-)
Twoflower
As a matter of fact, my mother had carpal tunnel syndrome about 5 or 6 years ago, long before Zod had it, when it was just becoming known as a true problem in the workplace.
She made Christmas Bells, where she took a metal bell about 3 inches in diameter, glued on a few fake berries, some fake leaves, and a bow. It was the tying of the bows that cause her carpal tunnel, because it was such an immensely reptetive action.
She made these bows for about 2 or 3 years, until she was in such pain she could not work. Since she was working out of her home for another person, she did not have L&I to rush in and protect her (like she would have needed it), but it did take a long time to heal. She still has problems in her hand, such as swelling in the cold and occasional pain.
Twoflower
Saphyre: I have no problems with you being both Beowulf's friend and my friend.
If bringing your up in here as an example angered you, then I am sorry. I just felt that Beowulf's message about him having no respect for any of MY friends was a little blind, in that we had friends and people we respect in common.
Twoflower
I also counted in how many messages Beowulf mentioned 'slut' and my relation to it.
At least 8, with it appearing twice in 2 of those messages.
Come ON and find something new to harp about, Beo. It's getting to the point where I can't respond in any manner other than the ones I have already done so.
Beowulf
Angela, to clarify a couple points... I'm a City Manager for a Multi-National Corporation, not a truck driver, and it is Zod(as in The Great Zod), not Zog(as in Zog T. Barbarian), that Twoflower was referring to.
Twoflower
Angela, LN, Saphyre, She-Zog, other innocent bystanders:
Yes, this is taking place for a reason, though why it has to be in front of you is a very good question. I can explain it this way: We were all friends at one time (though even that is in question now, but for the sake of explaining...:), we had a falling out (though I didn't understand why until later) and had kept out of each other's way since then.
I had not had a chance to express my anger (when I did find out) to Zod or ZF, or even Beowulf because we never attended the same meetings nor would speak to each other. I feel that meeting in person would be a bad idea, since I can see a pysical fight occuring should it happen (not by me, but by others...)
Since Beowulf and Zod have joined the CitNet, anger and hatred has been growing on both sides, since we are now forced to deal with the people who we really don't feel like dealing with. Little comments have twice brought on serious arguements and vague accusations.
The accusations have been vague to avoid exactly what agressiva pointed out as being a problem: mentioning other people without their being able or willing to comment on their own. There are at least 5 or 6 people who I have not mentioned in order to keep this from happening, though I have made the past mistake of mentioning a few others.
As I see this arguement going nowhere, and both the argument itself and the messages saying how stupid the argument is are taking up a huge amount of space, I will plan on making my final comments on Monday. Anyone who wishes to say anything more and have me respond ought to do so by then.
I thank Angela Davis for pointing out to me how incredibly stupidly pointless this argument is, though she could have been less eloquent about it (just how many obscene words DID you use? :) Though I realize that others have said so in the past, the fact that Angela would go to such lengths made me understand just how confused outsiders to this argument would be, and how, unless a few books were written, the situation could not be explained in any satisfactory manner.
This whole argument has been insightful to me, as it has allowed me to see how the 'other side' feels and let them know how I feel. If it has offended anyone or confused them or upset them, I appoligize. That was never my intent, but it IS my intent with this message to keep that from happening further.
As for playing network politics, I would never count myself out (maybe down, but not out :), but I will do my best to not let skeletons in the closet get the best of my politiking. Any arguments beyond Monday will be handled (by me) either in mail, in person, or not at all.
This message is not a 'saving face' message. If I were truly interested in gaining other peoples' respect, I never would have bothered with this whole argument in the first place. The intent of the message is as stated above (not to upset, offend, or confuse outsiders any further, for those of you who missed it.)
Don't expect the anger and hatred to go away. It will continue to lurk just below the surface as long as ford, I, and others are forced to deal with Beowulf, Zod, and ZF (and vis versa), but I do not believe anyone should be forced of the network to get rid of any offending parties. If anyone should leave voluntarily, then that is their business. I certainly don't intend to, as I have invested much time and effort into this network in the last 3 years (2 actually being on it) and have many friends and aquaintences I do not wish to give up for any stupid argument such as this.
What people think of me, they think of me. I stated only what I know and feel, as I know and feel it, both before this argument, and during it. I will continue to do so after the argument. It is how I am; I shall be honest in expressing my feelings.
I rid myself of this argument for the weekend, which I will be spending with Menolly and others (like I do every weekend), and will not see any further messages until at least Monday (though it may be Tuesday, since Monday is a holiday and I may spend that in Seattle as well.) As for any statement Menolly may make, I will inform her of my decision, and she can decide if she wishes to have me relay anything from her (though I'd guess that she'll be happy that this will no longer continue, and will be quite willing to let it all drop.)
Aidios amigos y enemigos. Hablare lunes o martes.
(Cave Bear: feel free to correct my Spanish. I don't know if I said that quite correctly.)
Beowulf
Zod's Friend, it is not representative of a lack of courage to be discreet in a matter of love or romance(particularly on Feastday of St. Valentine).
The Maven
Feel the need to say this, and although it's hard to say it without sounding judgemental, I'm not judging anybody... just making a note.
I lived with carpal tunnel syndrome in my left wrist to the point I couldn't use my left hand for anything (much less typing) for about 3 months before it finally subsided... and the pain killer I used was ibuprofen. Does a lot better job of killing pain than alcohol does (albeit not as fun, and you damn well better have a full stomach), doesn't fuck with your sobriety as bad (big doses throw me off balance, don't know about other people) and has the added benefit of being an anti-inflammatory (which made it subside faster).
Should try it, zod. 'Bout 800mg (4 tablets) after every meal (or 3 times a day with a snack if you don't eat regularly that often)... does WONDERS.
Oh, and it's "I don't CONSIDER".
Ganelius
gawd! I feel like I deserve a medal for reading through all of that... Pretty sad. Folks beatin up on each other and all. Must say though that Grendel to my knowledge has always been consistently inconsistent. That's what makes him so lovable and cuddly! (Not to be mistaken with a gumby cat however!) He deserves more respect, ya know like the Rodney Dangerfield of the net. Hey Grendel? When do we move in on the net and take over? I'm trying to keep the troops in line but they are spoiling for action.
Aw well, hope ya all have a wonderful and fulfilling St. Valentines day. (And James Shields, cheer up guy!)
ford prefect
maven: good point.
but you realise, of course, that it's not the carpal tunnel syndrome causing his drinking, and the subsequent lack of work, it's alcoholism.
would that be the cause as well, to your lack of parentage of patrick, zod?
defend yourself, zod. you feel the need to, keep it up. you walked right into this psycho-analytical fray.
Naut Humon
'what can we truly expect from a man without honor?'
i don't know beowulf;
what CAN we expect from you?
TaleTeller
Oh my. What a load of messages. Amazing, how much I didn't bother to read.
Kid Charlemagne
nah. angela's running the message text thru some sort of parser. ":)
twof: good show, then.
Twoflower
Beowulf, Menolly said that 1. she was on mayday and 2 it was not the argument you are talking about. And 3, she is not in any way defending me. Just because we have dated for nearly 3 years does NOT mean we have become one person with only one set of memories and goals in life. We hold different ideas and continue to speak for ourselves.
But she still agrees with me that you are a hypocritcal jerk.
Twoflower
(Oh, and I posted this because I am over at ford's and have access to a computer for once during the weekend.)
The Great Zod
Well, the medication is a past thing, with the surgeries done (quite successful at that :)
I was taking ibopufrin. For a year solid. Started with 400 mg every 4-6 hours, and worked right up to the last dose of 3200 mg three times in 4 hours with no effect (at which point I left work).
Nifty drug. The PDR states that periodic kidney and liver function tests should be performed on any person taking it for any length of time.
Point here is, all OTC meds with any analgesic action at all were tried, and either discarded as worthless (acetomenophen), or used to the point of burnout (aspirin, ibuprofen, followed by Meclomen {a synthetic aspirin, right down the page in the PDR}). L&I kept jerking things around, so there was no definitive time frame, and without that, my doctor wouldn't prescribe anything that would actually work (talking serious drugs here).
So what was left?
The first surgery was done April 1, 1991, with the claim having been opened October 1989, preceded by a misdiagnosis in September 1988. The second surgery was done in November 1991, with L&I having jerked me around some more in the in-between. After the recovery from the first surgery, the pain lessened to a point aspirin could handle in reasonable doses. Of course, being forced to move two weeks short of the minimal recovery time didn't exactly speed healing up.
Inactivity will lessen the symptoms, but the condition never goes away. If you want some information on it, I can post my doctor's number; he has published several articles on it, and speaks about it to large audiences frequently. He also knows about it from the other side; five weeks after my last surgery, he underwent it himself.
Bran Tregare
Twof, Got a message here for Menolly... Tell her that Omikazr-san says HI and Hope that things are going well for you :)
Cave Bear
Nope 2F, said it perfectly, no correction warranted. Attention folks, Dreamscape BBS, Auburn, WA/USA running RoscoeCit is now officially netting with Cave Bear's Laire. Welcome Paul.
Flying Wombat
it may be necessary to re-read the actual discussion in the "Human's Rights" room (featuring Shadow Ace and the rest of Mayday), to set the record straight and clear up some disinformation.
meanwhile, here's something a little less oriented towards child abuse:
87Nov08 3:02 pm from Becket
This is a little trivia test that I thought everyone might enjoy. It would be easier to capture it and solve it at your leisure than to do it all on-line.
Each equation below contains the initials of words that will make it correct. Find the missing words. For example: 26=L of the A would be 26 = Letters of the Alphabet.
A. 26 = L of the A
B. 7 = W of the A W
C. 1,001 = A N
D. 12 = S of the Z
E. 54 = C in a D (with the J)
F. 9 = P in the S S
G. 88 = P K
H. 13 = S on the A F
I. 32 = D F at which W F
J. 18 = H on a G C
K. 90 = D in a R A
L. 200 = D for P G in M
M. 8 = S on a S S
N. 3 = B M (S H T R)
O. 4 = Q in a G
P. 24 = H in a D
Q. 1 = W on a U
R. 5 = D in a Z C
S. 57 = H V
T. 11 = P on a F T
U. 1,000 = W that a P is W
V. 29 = D in F in a L Y
W. 64 = S on a C B
X. 40 = D and N of the G F
Y. 9 = L of a C
Z. 16 = T (by T.E.F.)
Additional equations:
1. 16 T. = 1 C.
2. U.S.G. = 18th P.
3. 30 D. = S.
4. G = 50th W.A.
5. L.S. + L.M. + L.H. + L.E. + L.O. = The G.L.
6. N. N. = G. N.
7. I. D. = J. 4
8. 9 I. = B. G.
9. 160 S. R. = 1 A.
10. R. + O. + Y. + G. + B. + I. + V. = C. of the S.
11. C. + L. + M. = The 3 S.
12. S. F. = C. of N. M.
13. D. + D. + P. + V. + C. + C. + D. + B. (and R.) = S. R.
14. Y. G. = as G. as M.
15. P. + N. + D. + Q. + H.D. + S.D. = U.S.C.
16. S. = The F. F.
Saphyre
wof, not angry...nah, amused maybe....
Zen, shut-up....That 'RELATIONSHIPS' room has only been around for about a year and a half and is not USUALLY like it is right this moment....Most people don't attempt to use it as a soapbox for their own personal war. The NEt Information room continued to net after stonehenge within weeks of the switchover....it was one of the first that was passed through Shades when the various Stonehenges approached me for networking...Limited networking was totally agreed upon by those of us that have it....
Waxed
Sheesh. 125 messages all at one time. I deserve some ice cream or something. But I have something more important to say:
"I'm here to apply for the position of Net-God."
Zod's Friend
Ford, since I was up, and saw it first. I will do the defending. ZOD IS NOT< I REPEAT< IS NOT an alchoholic, as proven by an evaluation he was forced by the court system to take due to the fact that Lady A. believed it to be so.
As I said in an open msg. in the relationships room, as soon as Zod's right wrist was worked on, he no longer medicated himself with alchohol, and in fact can not drink the stuff in the doses he used prior to surgery. He now only occasionly drinks a beer, and for the most part sticks to pop and coffee, which is the way it was b/4 he got carpal tunnel. As to his parenting of Patrick, he, even when he was using alchohol as a medication, was a fine parent. He in fact suffered the pain on a daily basis until Lady A. came home from work, as he felt it not a good idea to take his doses while he was caring for his son, which by the way was always his job. He has always been the one to interface with whatever caregiver they had. In fact when the L&I claim started, Patrick was in a montesori, the only reason he was able to stay in was because Zod helped them set up a computer program to run their Annual auction. So he wasn't sitting around drinking ALL the time as LAdy A. would have you all believe. Patrick is very special to Zod, and your girlfriend, if shes so inclined, can back me up on that one.
I really grow tired of you people buying the party line as far as Zod goes, he is now, and always has been Patrick's primary parent. Sure mommy dearest is now playing the model mother, but where was she the first 7 years? She now thinks she buy her way back into his heart, but 9 months later he still feels the same way to use his words "I love my daddy more than my momma, and I always have" They have a very special relationship that no one is going to destroy - it began at infancy and has continued even though his mother has tried to sever it, it wont happen - this child knows who he is in relation to both his parents, and even a trip to Disneyland couldn't change his mind, as if it would.
Nothing you people say will matter in the long run, the judicial system will handle it, which is unfourtuneate, because a little boys life is hanging in the balance and he is suffering, as evidenced by the things he says, and by his marks in school. He deserves better than he's getting, and the bottom lone is, Zod will continue to fight for what Patrick rightfully should have, that being the right to live with the parent that has always been ther for him, his father.
She-Zog
Twoflower... thank you. I would never want to encourage anyone to talk about someone else if they did not have the ability to speak for themself or defend themself.
Grendel
Thank you, Gan. Say hello to Christ Cuz for me if you get a chance or have you sent him to reform school yet? =) (Note: That was a friendly joke refering to incidents on Gan's board)
The Great Zod
Ford, I don't need to "defend" myself, especially when the people doing the accusing haven't seen me in over a year, in anything more than a "oh, s/he's here" situation.
Nobody knows the situation now; they only know what they have been told, or saw occasionally for themselves over a year ago, prior to the first surgery, and nothing at all three years back.
Subjectivity reins..
Waxed
"Hi. Do you have any applications for your position of Net-God?"
Zog T. Barbarian
it's amazing that most children like their father best. it's just the way it is. it is also amazing how you can bribe a child by giving them more privlages and toys expensive ones that the other parent can't afford. like a Sega Genisis system or somesuch other expensive thing.
JoAnne
:-) And me... Net-Goddess.
Beowulf
The man without honor is probably right. We will have animosity for the rest of our days. I will not quit this network(I would not now, even if I had considered such in the past), and Twoflower would not consider such now(even if he had considered such in the past).
Twoflower was a good and contributing user on Mayday 1, if a bit of a tight-ass, until I got my divorce. From the very month I announced it, he was haranguing me, and telling all sorts of tales meant to be demeaning or defacing. For years I have had to put up with "but, Twoflower said you were arrested for child molesting", "but, Twoflower said you read all the e-mail on your board", "but, Twoflower said you crashed Greenlake Connection".
Twoflower was a good and contribution user, if a bit of a tight-ass, on Outer Limits. Then The Great Zod and Lady Almathea got divorced. BOOM, he is all over the place getting all the slander he can, spreading it to all his good "friends", about The Great Zod, and the woman that loves him, Zod's Friend. Now I heard "but, Twoflower says The Great Zod is a hopeless alcoholic", "but, Twoflower says The Great Zod is unemployed", "but, Twoflower says that Zod's Friend is a slut".
I didn't care that much when Twoflower was slandering me. Most people were to bright to believe him, and most of the others were too small in number and too big in attitude to worry about. Now, when he starts on someone else, friends of mine, like The Great Zod, and Zod
s Friend, that is a different story. I will not tolerate it, and there is the double satisfaction of it being a pay back for all those years he has slandered me.
Now, considering The Great Zod, and myself, Twoflower must have a fixation caused by lack of an effective male role model, probably through divorce, and is express this anger by transposition. Or he is just dirt mean.
Flying Wombat
"shut-up"? this is still a free country, and no one gets power over another like that.
fact remains that the 'Relationships' room has been one of the main scenes of the discussion between Zod and Lady A. and other 'interested' parties since at least last November... (that's when I bought this IBM keyboard from someone who's a regular on Outer Limits.. he told me a good deal about the situation as it appeared on the net, but I don't personally know the people involved and I've always stayed out of it.)
I'm not denying that the Relationships room >should< be encouraged to get back on track, I was just reporting the status of the room as it's been lately, so try not to take it so personally.
as for Network 'Information', I've never been involved in arrangements between Shades and Crystal Dragon... I can correct the previous to say that AQU and TLC (which ran the gateways to Henge via CD) kept up netting after 'Chrysalis' converted to Citadel, but that was between us and not subject to covert control from anyone else on either side of the network.
anyhow, what Shades does with its network partners is its own affair.. as is true between >any< group of sysops.
as for the 'Relationships' room's origin: what AQU had for years (which Twoflower would remember) was non-netted, and by the time I netted it with Crystal Dragon et al., it had long since scrolled.
Zod's Friend
For your information, the Sega was not in the budget, but a gift from the heart, the trip to Disneyland could be consisered a bribe, (which is how it has been viewed by most of his family) although this child cannot be bribed, so get of the bribe kick, it don't wash. There are also no more priveleges here than there was when the parents were together, in fact he gets more at his mothers, if you can call them that - when he is here he prefers to eat here (he likes my cooking) when he is with his mother, he's rarely home, which is why his grades are failing, he gets no instruction outside of school except when he is here. I could go on and on but you all will continue to find fault in what we do, but no fault in the poor little "victim" who has done no wrong in your eyes. I think shes in the wrong vocation, she should of been an actress, she's really good at her craft as evidenced by the things said here, things none of you (some of whom we have seen recently) has had the balls to say to our faces.
Zod's Friend
By the way, I suggest you do some reading on the subject of child development, Zog. I have read a couple in the past year, one of which is a child physchology text book, which states that sons lean toward their mothers and girls toward their father. This of course has not been the case with this son, he's always made his preference known, in fact at 6 months of age or so, as his father arrived to pick him up, this son exclaimed "my daddy!" to the amazement of his uncle who didn't know he could put two words together. Zod does not need to bribe his child, his child loves him more than anything and always has, and trip to Disneyland or not, he always will.
We really need a room for this discussion, but I'm afraid it would become a real shoving match, and we all no the general outcome of such topics anyway, now don't we.
BTW the dictionary definition of bribe is:
n. something offered in order to influence a person illegally or
improperly to act in the favor of the giver.
bribe v. (bribed, bribing) to persuade by a bribe.
Zod has no need to bribe his child, even before he got the Sega, he had a Nintendo at his mother's and he only missed it the first couple of visits, and then it was forgotten about, and in fact it was used as a tool to attempt to shorten visitation in the early stages of the divorce.
As I have said before, sling away, and I will keep giving you facts.
So who's next?
Sharon Ann Campbell
I'll vote for you, JoAnne. ;-)
Zog T. Barbarian
the point I'm trying to make here is that EVERYONE involved in this is determined to prove the other wrong. Nobody listens to what others are saying except to cut their arguments apart.
and I really don't think that this is the proper forum for who is the right parent. I haven't said that I side with either party's. I'm just trying to point out that neither of the three people are perfect. if they where they probably would not be divorced.
The courtroom is the forum for deciding who is the right parent. I really don't want to see Beth, Zod, and Lady A dragging their dirty laundry out in public trying to make us all make a choice between them.
I like all three and am friends with all three. and I want to keep it that way.
so quit trying to make us make a choice on who should have custudy of Patrick. That is not our decision.
You've already said that you would drop the subject.
now drop it.
Beowulf
Rumor: The Great Zod is an alcoholic.
Source: Twoflower - 2/5/92
Quote: "It wasn't the dumb drunk fuck I that addressed me, it was the dumb slut."
Source: Twoflower - 2/12/92
Quote: "Or maybe he agrees that Zod is a dumb drunk fuck."
Contradictions:
Source: Twoflower - 2/6/92
Quote: "I spent a night several years ago, watching will smoke and drink,"
Source: Twoflower - 2/14/92
Quote: "I watched you often get drunk."
FACT: Lady Almathea contended before the court that The Great Zod was an alcoholic(this was regarding custody, and visitation rights). The court ordered that he be tested by an organization the court designated. He was cleared of the allegation that he was alcoholic.
Rumor: The Great is unemployed.
Source: Twoflower - 2/12/92
Quote: "And, Zod, just how much DOES disability pay,"
FACT: The Great has been getting up at 5:30 every morning and going to work, since the completion of surgery, and physical therapy, on his wrists. He works with a sysop called Shockwave Rider that runs a linear system called "Shock's Place".
Rumor: The Great Zod is a philander.
Source: Twoflower - 2/6/92
Quote: "I find it interesting that Beowulf can be friends with someone who had at least 2, maybe 3 mistresses at one time as having a wife and young son."
Source: Twoflower - 2/11/92
Quote: ".... from your obvious 'me, me, me!' complex (gotta have 4 women, gotta have beer..."
FACT: I have maintained relationships with four women concurrently, ithere is insufficent time to do much else, such as maintaining friendships, or running a bulletin board.
Rumor: The Great Zod prejudice against those with more money.
Source: Twoflower - 2/11/92
Quote: "And Zod, you have always (as long as I have know you) had an extremely prejudice view of people who have significantly more money than you "
FACT: The Great Zod is one of the few people that Kalen Bonn calls friend, anymore. She, or rather her family, have enough money to buy and sell Twoflower and family, several times over.
CONTRADICTION:
Source: Twoflower - 2/14/92
Quote: "If it had offended anyone or confused them or upset them, I apologize. That was never my intent,"
Beowulf
There are those among you that feel this is all rather insignificant(albeit Twoflower's friends), but let's look at the out-turn of his work.
On 2/15/92, Zog T. Barbarian posted the following:
"it's amazing that most children like their father best. it's just the way it is. it is also amazing how you can bribe a child by giving them more privileges and toys expensive ones that the other parent can't afford. like a Sega Genisis system or somesuch other expensive thing."
Zog is referring to Lady Almathea, The Great Zod, and their son Patrick. The interesting thing is what he says, and I presume, expects to be believed.
"it is amazing that most children like their father best. it's just the way it is." In truth, children before the age of 6-8(depending on child), have a stronger bond with their mother. After that period, daughters are drawn to their fathers, and sons to their mothers. This is a generalization, and individual cases may vary, but it was in answer to a generalization.
"it is also amazing how you can bribe a child by giving them more privileges and toys expensive ones that the other parent can't afford." It is true that Zod and Zod's Friend bought Patrick a Sega system for his birthday, but, the truth is, Lady Almathea makes more money, and has less expenses than The Great Zod, and Zod's Friend. But, if this is considered a bribe, consider that Lady Almathea has taken time off of work, and Patrick out of school, to take him to Disneyland, these last four days. Personally I don't see it as bribery from either side.
The question is, would have Zog T. Barbarian said these things, had not Twoflower done it with such impunity, from their cliche?
(For the sake of Angela Davis, Livia, ford prefect, and other members of that cliche that will deny that it exists, may I quote Twoflower, as of 2/14, "Since Beowulf and Zod have joined the CitNet, anger has been growing on both sides, since we are now forced to deal with the people who we really don't feel like dealing with.", and draw attention to the use of plurals.)
Beowulf
Also there is the matter of Menolly. Menolly has not been on Mayday 1, or talked to me for more than 10 minutes total, in the last 2 years, but according to Twoflower "She also did not believe that my statement about her disliking Beowulf and ZF and hating Zod were strong enough." and "she still agree with me that you are a hypocritical jerk." (After four comments about Menolly's thoughts and opinion from Twoflower, it was humorous to read "...and continue to speak for ourselves.").
If Menolly dislikes me, since she has not been on Mayday, nor in my company, she must be forming her judgement by secondhand information. Having read the rumors/source/facts noted above, does anyone have a question about how she formed her opinion?
This, again, is part of the travesty of Twoflower.
Lil' Devil
Hmmm, this is most amusing, but let's quit with this. We could all continue to pick apart each others posts and even quote out of context and change the meanings of what is quoted as well. I like both Lady A and ZF as well and am really getting tired of the back and forth defending of each others positions. You are only going to alienate some of your friends as they are going to get really annoyed with the goings on. You aren't winning any points here, but loosing alot of them. Ciao.
Techno Destructo
Well... Beo' I work with Zod & Shock' and Zod started working as soon as he was released from L&I, he is there everyday, he is on time, he takes pride in his work. He has turned out to be one of the best guys on the crew.
Livia
I deny that I'm part of a cliche. However, I might possibly admit to being part of a clique. :)
Naut Humon
beowulf:
at one time, you were really quite smart, i thought.
maybe you got stupid, or maybe the world just accelerated past you.
or maybe you're just so deep into a fight you don't know what an ass you're making of yourself.
twoflower has made an attempt to at least shut up about this issue, and let it fester forever.
you, however, seem to be bound and determined to look like the 'winner' in this situation.
it makes me think that twoflower had something on the ball all along, and wasn't just throwing insults based on vague rumours around.
but i'm part of that cliche (did you mean clique?) of his friends, i guess, so my head is right up my ass.
of course, it wasn't so long ago that twoflower didn't like me.
i'm sure menolly still dislikes me.
but we're still part of that grand conspiracy to make you and zod and zod's friend look like fools, drunkards, perverts and adulterers, right?
right.
what ever, dude. i've heard various stories about y'all, from various 'first hand' people, who have had things done to them, etc, etc.
and you know what?
i believe every story i hear.
because the bbs community is like every other community: wholesale corrupt with people lying to save their asses, trying to make themselves look like the victim in a situation.
the only reason i don't have any skeletons in my closet (that i can recall) is because i don't consider you people my friends, and i don't visit with any of you.ô¨
community of incestious people.
and taleteller is being stupid.
leaving a message complaining about how we're all stupid leaving messages she wouldn't read.
you're just SO superior.
anyway.
Dave
I have only seen 2 or 3 messages come thru the Amateur Radio and Packet Radio Rooms from BBS' other than Cave Bear's Laire and Chateau Aspen.
Ganelius
Grendel, no problem guy. It always was a pleasure to chat with you. I've always valued folks that use their minds to think rather than reflect others opinions. Even if they radically disagree with me! :) By the way, Christ Cuzz is now an official adult. Time passes. He chose to learn about life through direct contact. No college for him. Meanwhile the net goes on... Now what was the current topic? I seem to remember some sort of multiple defamation of character action that resembled naked blind hippos mud wrestling... Or was that a different room, on another channel... :)
Beowulf
To tell the truth, Dave, I think it is because of a limited amount of interest, or even understanding, about packet radio.
Ganelius, no, you have the right room, right channel, its just that the other blind hippos needed a breather:)
Grendel
Well, it is good to here that he is an adult now, Gan. I wish the same could be said for me. =)
I didn't think he'd stay a born again for too long. He was just too fanatical about it. I still think you need to get the Inner Sanctum boards back up and on the net.
Have you changed your mind on releasing the Eidolon code yet? I know you wanted to keep some of the source in it confidential but no work has been done on it in years and I can think of a couple of people who would be interested perhaps.
Techno Destructo
I am friends with Zod and ZF but I do have to agree that this is not a good place for a discussion of Patrick's custody (No offense ZF & Zod), as for all the name calling & bantering back and forth its just that. Twoflower, I've known Zod for about three years and have been around him enough to say that your posts about him are ridiculous, I don't know you and have no anamosity (sp) towards you, but I think some of your post are way out of line. As for Beowulf, I've met him several times on a casual basis and enjoy talking to him, he seems like a straight forward person and an intelligent individual, So I feel that your posts concerning him must be as founded as your
posts concerning Zod and Zod's Friend.
Zod's Friend
Look, enough is enough, if it hadn't been brought up, I being the person I am, would not have felt the need to go on the defensive. I wish Twoflower would of kept his mouth shut, then this wouldn't be here in the first place.
It seems obvious he has some sort of cross to bear because of his own parents divorce, and he has carried it here to attack yet another man going thru a divorce. I hope he is serious when he says he plans to drop this, he started it, and he should end it. The ball is really in his court at the moment, and I for one would like to see it hit the pond, never to be retreived.
BTW, I am glad that some of you still consider me a friend, I have a great fondess for all of you, and I know my behaivour has been hard to take at times. I promise I will try not to let those out there that hate me, get to me any more, I have enough battles to help Zod get thru outside this community.
PEACE,
Beth.
Dave
That is what I was thinking about the lack of messages in those areaas, Beo ;]
Beowulf
May I point out that Twoflower, the man without honor, himself said "I will plan on making my final comments on Monday. Anyone who wishes to say anything more and have me respond ought to do so by then."
If you don't want to disagree with your dear friend, then, by his words, my comments are justified.
There will be more. Despite the arrogance of coming in slandering people, and then saying 'I am done, the conversation is at an end', Twoflower will learn that this is not the way things work in the real, adult world. Heck, what is he going to do, slander me, defame me, threaten me? He has done as much to me for years. I figure I can do anything I want, having already paid the bill.
Beowulf
Zog, not everyone is attempting to prove to the other that they are wrong. I'm trying to prove that Twoflower, is a liar, a slander, and without honor(because of his use of the word "slut"), and that those that support him are equal to blame. Further, that those things he has done are significant. I do listen to what they say. How else could I point out their lies, and their contradictions?
This is not the right forum for deciding who will get custody of Patrick, but that was just a 'bait and switch' technique used on Zod's Friend. Which she unfortunately fell for. But I would hardly say that your message of February 15th displayed an unbiased open mind. It clearly took exception to The Great Zod and Zod's Friend, in regard to Patrick. You are right about this not being the prope
r forum, and that proper forum is a court of law. Remember though, Twoflower's earlier comment about The Great Zod being 'court happy'. Perhaps Twoflower will attach this label to you now. (Naw, I didn't think so.)
Beowulf
Interesting, I was just thinking about the conflict between Zod's Friend, The Great Zod, and Lady Almathea, and how it relates to my being a ruthless, dictatorial, sysop. From the evening of the seperation I have made it clear that Mayday 1 was not to be used to voice their differences. This was relevant since they constitute three of my five aides.
It was impossible to maintain a relationship topic(which was a shame because it was a direct descendant of the original one on Invisible Seattle, circa 1984), and keep these people as aides. It seemed that about half of what could be said about any relationship related to them. I was constantly having to pull their messages, and reprimand them. So, I was faced with having to decide on keeping all them as aides and friends, or keeping the classic "Relationships" topic. There was no contest, the topic was killed, and I warned all my users that any subsequent remaking of the room would not be appreciated.
Peace has been maintained over on Mayday, and will continue, with the major parties involved.
If control were maintained over the topics(i.e. censorship), then the networked "Relationships" would not be a problem. Okay, okay, I know "censorship" is a dirty word, but Naut Humon, who carries the banner of Free Speech wherever he goes, is not above telling people to "shut up". Zog, who shares his views on censorship is willing to tell people to "now drop it". Perhaps this double standard should be allowed to spread out a bit more.
Grendel
Gee, Beo, you are such a victim and have been SOOOOOO maligned by everyone. I guess you really are our next presidential cantidate and a prophet to boot!
Not.
Most of what people say about you here is true from my experience. What is not true, I have spoken against on the basis of what I've seen.
brent
okay. I've already taken control of amber. Now you must all surrender to my power...
Twoflower
As I said, I will make my final comments upon this topic today.
And, as I thought, there is almost nothing to respond to, only 2 messages of Beowulf's that are grossly wrong and 1 mistake of ZF's.
Twoflower
Beowulf: I had not discussed you, Kalen, your divorce, or anything having to do with you except a few conversations with Grendel who was keeping in some sort of contact with Kalen before she left, and whatever people moaned/whined/bitched about the stupid coffee break thing. You are making yourself seem way more important than you are, if you actually think that you are that interesting to talk about.
Also, the majority of your quotes taken from my messages were out of context, stripped of their supporting evidence, or just things that I don't wish to back up (again, drawing in other people who can't talk for themselves) with evidence as you'd like not to see.
Twoflower
Zod's Friend: I don't understand where you get the idea that my parents are divorced. Never have been, and I don't think they ever will. But, if they do, that's up to them and as I will be out of their house, it won't make all that much of a functional difference to me.
Maybe you misread Beowulf's incorrect message about how I have badmouthed everyone on the boards who has gone through a divorce. Maybe Beowulf lied in there somewhere where I didn't see it. I don't know. I didn't really read all that closely as there were 44 messages and none of the ones with any substance came from Beowulf.
Little Nemo
Telling someone to shut up is not censorship.
Deleting their messages, on the other hand, IS.
Free speech applies both ways.
If I don't like the net messages coming into my board, I won't pull them. But I will certainl tell someone to shut up if I feel like it. And that person doesn't have to obey me.
It's not a double standard.
Twoflower
In a horrific coup attempt, the newly combined She-Zog/Saphyre/et al faction wrests power from an embattled Milliways faction. Secretly, however, Angela Davis assasinates the leaders of the She-Zog/Saphyre/et al faction by destroying the phone lines into each of their respective homes.
The Livia/Amber faction quickly grabs power by pointing out a number of grammarical errors, and continues on to oversee the trial of Angela Davis, who is eventually found guilty and sentenced to 2 weeks of being dungeoned with ettin and hombre on Destination:VOID.
Continuing to struggle with line noise problems, the Milliways faction defers for the time being to the Livia/Amber faction. A new poll of 12 users who call at least once a month shows the following results:
User Opinion Poll (C)1991 Galloop Polls
-----------------
Question: Which faction controls the CitNet at this time?
#Polled: 12
Criteria for choosing users polled: they called a board on the CitNet at least once a week.
Margin of error: + or - 100%
Results:
3 users said the Livia/Amber faction.
1 user said the Milliways faction.
4 users said it's a conspiracy by the Texas sysops.
2 users said nobody in their right mind.
2 users said 'what's the CitNet?'
Riding the polls, the Texas sysops immediately claim control of the CitNet. Pat J. pronounces himself 'The Language Guru', and flies to Seattle to assasinate any Seattle sysops who continue to allow obscenties on their networked boards. He falls victim to a nasty spurt of vicious fowl (sic) language from Naut Humon, and is rushed to Harborview for treatment. After recovering, he makes his way to the home of Cave Bear, where he is arrested by Topic Police when he got confused by Cave Bear's directions to the computer (which were in Spanish) and ended up in the bathroom, hitting the toilet with a shower curtain bar.
In the second sensational trial of the year, the forum has to be moved to California to find a sufficient number of jury persons who are not already well informed about the case. The judge eventually sends Pat J. back to Texas with a restraining order not to come near the Pacific Northwest for at least 3 weeks, and has him pay restitution to Cave Bear for once chipped toilet and a bent shower curtain bar, $52.36.
Watch for continuing installments of your favorite BBS soap, 'As the Modem Connects' right here on your favorite channel. Also be sure to watch 'Married...With Computer.' This week, an angry neighbor destroys the Bundy's on-line catalogue of pornographic GIF files. '60 Nanoseconds' will cover the continuing crisis involving the network/censorship issue, and will profile the Maven, inegmatic programmer of 'MavenCit'. And on 'BBS Law', a hacker must be defended by Dragon and Techno-Destructo, despite his obvious connections with the underground 'Legion of Doom'.
Twoflower
(Oops, that last message should say '(C)1992 Galloop Polls.' Darn.)
Twoflower
Bran Tregare: Menolly says hi back to Omikarz-san and says she's doing fine and wants to know how he's doing?
ford prefect
heh heh.,
twoflower's last word, being:
'darn.'
cute.
Grendel
I liked it.
Beowulf
Well Grendel, I have faults, but I really do object to situations, such as Menolly, who knows, as fact, little or nothing about me, yet feels that dislike is not strong enough to express their opinion of me. You wanna tell me just how Menolly would come to such a conclusion? Presuming that Twoflower is not lying about this, as he had with the previous quotes that I pointed out.
I don't mind Grendel. If he were to slander me, no one would listen to him, therefore no harm is done. Now Twoflower has exampled that harm is actually being done, by his slander. I still think that he is either annoyed by divorced fathers, due to lacking an effective male role model, or he's just dirt mean.
Saphyre
Well right this minute anyway Relationships is back on topic
San San
Maybe he really did mean cliche: a trite or hackneyed expression, action, etc.
Livia
I think I'll yield control to the awesomely powerful brent/so i'm lazy faction. :)
Pan Man
'Sorry. I already got the job.'
Zod's Friend
Sorry 'bout that Twoflower, I have been misinformed. Although I must say, I do find it interseting from past and present experience, that you appear to have something against divorced fathers. But this is all in the past now, right? I think al ot of people were enlightened by all of this but are now gonna be happy to see it go away. As I said in my last msg.
PEACE
Beowulf
No, Little Nemo, you are mistaken. Anytime a person attempts to prohibiting the expression of thoughts or ideas, they are engaging in censorship. If we were to assume that you are correct, then we must accept that printed words are more important than the ideas they represent.
Thank you San San, I had mistyped it, but, upon reflection, decided that it humorously fit. I knew that the Twoflower/Milliways faction would not get the pun:)
StraitJacket
This is all really funny, all this conversation behind Lady Almathea's back. the only reason you don't put it in the public areas is that evryone else would get sick of it. Frankly, this only involves 3 people, Zod, Lady A and patrick. They can converse in person or by phone, and NOT put it on the rest of us. I am more or less impartial in this, i have met both partys and that is about it. My bbs had a problem with the slander/facts (Hard to tell the diffrence) and i just posted a chat and the problem stopped. this is OLD, and was old at samhain. and old when i first met Lady A. Please... Drop it.
Kid Charlemagne
sheesh.
so many channels on this BBS thing, but only one show's on.
Beowulf
Let's see what Twoflower, the man without honor, has to say as a closing comment to the discussion. (Having had him state he would never call Mayday 1, ever again, five times in one year, it should be interesting to see if he has developed any more character since then. Though, referring to women as "sluts" is not a good indication.)
Twoflower, the man without honor, claims that information, I presume about my "respect for women", as she was a former lover, came from Kalen via Grendel. That would seem plausible except Grendel has said, in this very forum, that he has never known me to be disrespectful of women. So, we have a contradiction directly from the source.
Twoflower, the man without honor, states "You are making yourself seem way more important that you are, if you actually think that you are that interesting to talk about." First, may I point out that I have stated here, that I am striving to be boring and redundant:) Secondly, if I am so unimportant, why does Twoflower, the man without honor mention my name five times in his last three messages. Heck, he hardly posts anything, to the network, without mentioning me, in some offhand way. Seems to me that it is Twoflower, the man without honor, that is granting importance to my existence. Twoflower, the man without honor(I told ya, redundant:), stated "Also, the majority of your quotes taken from my messages were out of context, stripped of their supporting evidence,". You would have to be a true follower of Milliways to believe this. Heck the "out of context" defense goes with their membership. Further to the quote " or just things I don't wish to back up (again, drawing in other people who can't talk for themselves) with evidence as you'd like not to see.". Twoflower, the man without honor, has made reference, or quoted, Kalen and/or Gypsy, but says he doesn't want to draw in "other people who can't talk for themselves". I think this is an official "Give me a break!".
As for the possibility that I lied, may I point out that I said "Twoflower, the man without honor,
appears to suffer from the lack of an effective male role model, possibly from divorce. Or he is dirt mean." To Twoflower, the man without honor, this might appear a lie. Obviously he has a different definition of of the word "lie".
Naut Humon
unlike beowulf, of course, who is a perfectly normal, well adjusted person, and could never be considered, 'dirt mean'.
"shut up," he explained.
NightHawk
heh, cute message twof
Zod's Friend
Thank you Straighjacket,but I think it is fini now. I don't know how much scrolled before you visited this room, but a lot has gone down in the past few weeks. The only reason I got involved was that I went on the defensive about things said that were unfounded, and likely based on 2nd or 3rd hand information, and as we all know (if any of you has played the game in school) as information is passed on, by the time it gets to the last person, it's usually not in it's original form, as was the case about my comments about 2F's parents, it was info I was told long ago, coupled by something said recently that I misinterpreted. The rest was based on facts as I've known them first hand experience. But, all is well now, I think we all realize this was a big mistake that never should of happened. Oh and BTW, there is a fourth person involved, always has been, and always will be.
CONTINUED PEACE PLEASE!
Cave Bear
Twoflower, that is the funiest thing I have ever seen you post! I loved it! Tu escribe muy bien quando tu quieres cabellero! Heh!
Pan Man
Beowulf.
Sorry to interrupt.
Fight is over, my friend.
Little Nemo
No, Beowulf, sorry. Telling someone to shut up is not censorship -- unless you try to ENFORCE the shut up command.
I have every right to say, (for example) "I want you all to shut up because you're acting ridiculous." That is expressing my opinion. I would have the right to *ask* you not to use profanity, not to express certain political beliefs, or even not to make any typos, if I want. That is my First Amendment right.
But I DON'T have the right to force you to obey me. You'd be within your First Amendment rights to tell me "Go jump in the lake, I'll say what I want." Fine. I'll have expressed my opinion by telling you to shut up, or whatever, and you'll express yours by telling me "NO."
Now, if I PULLED all the messages that offend me, THAT would be censorship.
Get it?
Twoflower
cave bear: wow, I could even understand your spanish. :)
Beowulf
Straitjacket, you have missed a few people, and a few points in this discussion.
Twoflower says that the discussion is ended. To presume that his statement ends the conversation is to presume that he runs the network, or at least this part of it. Twoflower was never a party in my discussion here. (I know, this is beginning to look like something out of Milliways, but bear with me.)
On this network there are those that proclaim "information is for everyone". Regardless of whether that is right or wrong, they do not take umbrage with misinformation(i.e. lies, rumors). On this network there are those that take exception to censorship. Regardless of whether that is right or wrong, they try to muzzle, generally by intimidation or social pressure, those that believe differently(i.e. shut up, etc.).
My arguments here have been, to some extent, for those sysop referenced in the previous paragraph, but mostly for all the other sysops. Hopefully, those other sysops will aware of this ready failing, and guard against it.
Twoflower was not a participant in my arguments, he just served to provide me with examples to illustrate my points. If at all possible, I do not deal with people without honor.
Beowulf
Little Nemo, you see a difference between telling someone to "shut up" and censorship, my sympathy(noting my last message for particulars).
As for the Censorship room. I have been told that it is the same old arguments running the same old course, yet again. The first discussion on Censorship> I engaged in was February 1984, on Inviz. The next one was 8 months, or so, later on Satellite. Does this give you any idea about just how much change these discussions have had on the community?
Personally I would rather pull a message, than hurt a friend. As in the case of Lady Almathea, The Great Zod, and Zod's Friend. I would rather pull a message than present a substandard product to the public. As in the editing of my "Serious Discussion" hallway. I would GLADLY pull messages containing lies, slander, or purposeful offense.
This is censorship, so sue me. Also, I suggest that you reread your Constitution regarding "Freedom of Speech", while noting that neither you, nor I, are the Federal Government.
Angela Davis
There's a lot of crap flying around, and some of it is downright
inappropriate. Other parts of it are just pretty wacky, and these are the
parts I care about.
"(For the sake of Angela Davis, Livia, ford prefect, and other members of
that cliche that will deny that it exists, may I quote Twoflower, as of 2/14,
'Since Beowulf and Zod have joined the CitNet, anger has been growing on both
sides, since we are now forced to deal with the people who we really don't feel
like dealing with.', and draw attention to the use of plurals.)"
Things were making some sense up to this point. Livia or Ford, just how are
we members of a "cliche"? I mean, how do I fit into it? Maybe I should
learn your real names, or something. And we should get together to plan the
revolution. But does this mean I have to stop siding with Zod on the point
that Twoflower's being a fucker-head? I mean, HE is the one that WE are now
forced to deal with.
Blah.
Call capitalists pigs in the 50's and you're a Communist, whether you know
it or not.
"Menolly has not been on Mayday 1, or talked to me for more than 10 minutes
total, in the last 2 years..."
"she must be forming her judgement by secondhand information. Having read
the rumors/source/facts noted above, does anyone have a question about how
she formed her opinion?"
Your statement implies (but does not state) that before two years ago,
Menolly (X) talked to you (Y) more frequently. This true, it is not
unreasonable to believe that a person can form the opinion that Y is a
hypocritical jerk, based on experiences of more than two years ago. You
seem to be suggesting another alternative here, that Twoflower has more
recently corrupted X's mind. While this may be possible, it doesn't
logically follow here.
As well, it's possible to form the opinion that Y is a hypocritical jerk,
while neither calling Mayday 1 nor talking with Y. I, for example, have
never talked with you, and only made a few jaunts through Mayday 1 many
months ago. I can see how someone can determine that you're a hypocritical
jerk without calling your board or talking with you directly.
"Does anyone have a question about how she formed her opinion?"
There is reasonable reason to believe that she could have formed it through
a source other than Twoflower. No hangin' today, Tex.
Regarding censorship, Little Nemo has illustrated the difference eloquently.
If you don't agree with her distinction, let me know, as you left some real
gems in your last entry on the topic.
"Twoflower, the man without honor, claims that information, I presume about
my 'respect for women', as she was a former lover, came from Kalen via
Grendel. That would seem plausible except Grendel has said, in this very
forum, that he has never known me to be disrespectful of women. So, we have
a contradiction directly from the source."
Perhaps Grendel was speaking for himself. Like, "Well, I've never known
Jan to be a fuckup. But Tom certainly has."
"Secondly, if I am so unimportant, why does Twoflower, the man without
honor mention my name five times in his last three messages."
Shit, Twoflower. If this is the standard for importance, Beowulf must think
you're the fucking Christ child.
Naut Humon
"twoflower, the man without honor..."
is it live, or is it a macro?
Pan Man
I don't really want to insert my last message.
Angela Davis
"Twoflower says that the discussion is ended. To presume that his
statement ends the conversation is to presume that he runs the network, or
at least this part of it. Twoflower was never a party in my discussion here.
(I know, this is beginning to look like something out of Milliways, but bear
with me.)"
To presume Twoflower even said this is to presume that Beowulf provides
accurate information. In reality, this statement is manufactured (say man-
YOO-fact-churd).
Precisely what Twoflower DID say is this:
(14Feb92) "As I see this arguement going nowhere, and both the argument
itself and the messages saying how stupid the argument is are taking up a
huge amount of space, I will plan on making my final comments on Monday.
Anyone who wishes to say anything more and have me respond ought to do so by
then."
(17Feb92) "As I said, I will make my final comments upon this topic today."
Note how different this is from saying, "the discussion is ended".
Twoflower knew he could not end it, and it wasn't even his intent to. Also
note how Beowulf uses this manufactured inaccurate information to forward his
nutty NetGod thesis.
This has been another entry by The Disinterested Tyrant. Remember, It Could
Well Be True, But Bad Logic Won't Prove It.
Naut Humon
if someone considers any pressure on them to 'shut up' by people they don't like to be 'social' pressure, then they must not have many friends.
people tell me to shut up all the time.
and yet, i still mouth off on a far-too-regular basis.
am i something special?
i find that REALLY hard to believe. i'm average, maybe.
TaleTeller
Kiss Kiss, Naut!
James Shields
Regarding censorship:
A court case that I remember being on the news... a school newspaper decided not to print an article that a student had written. The student cried censorship and sued. The courts ruled that it was the school's newpaper and that they could publish or NOT publish whatever they chose.
If the student had been publishing their own paper, it would have been a different story.
How does this apply to BBSs? If Beo wants to pull a message from his board, that's find. It's his. He's allowed. If he wants to pull a message from someone else's board... too bad.
Little Nemo
re: "christ child" comment -- hee hee! :)
Beowulf, I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do. However, you have
the right to disagree with me, and I have the right to disagree with you. And the world will keep turning. I have stated my disagreement here, and it is out there for everyone else to agree with or not.
As far as pulling slanderous messages -- if a message actually fits the
definition of slander, it can be pulled. Free speech doesn't mean LIES
have to be supported -- to use the classic example, free speech doesn't
mean you can get away with yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded moviehouse,
unless, of course, it's the truth. Is what we've seen in here slanderous? It could be. I don't know. I don't pull it 'cause it's a limited access room, anyway.
And I know damn well that the First Amendment applies to the Federal
Government. I also know that I choose to respect First Amendment rights
myself, though I don't have to. I hope you don't have a problem with that. Well, it wouldn't matter if you did; I'm not changing my mind. :)
The Great Zod
Er, Straitjacket? Think you might read forward in this room and come up with A) an accounting of current events where Lady A is concerned, or B) any accounting of past events where she is named in any way?
If not, then I hardly think this is "behind her back."
The only mention that comes to mind, is of the nature of "the situation concerning...is not for this forum..." (paraphrased).
Hardly the situation that existed on Asylum at the date of our chat, and just as equally hard to class as "behind her back."
I am very sure that the Email (and probable open) messages coming under her name that I will never see are much more interesting..
Twoflower
>I< never said the discussion was over. I only said I would no longer comment upon the current argument if continued by Beowulf, Zod, or ZF. Zod and ZF have not continued to argue, but Beowulf still is. His choice.
Angela: actually, I see your point.
George Bush, to whom I place an importance of a potato bug, I seem to mention more often than, say, the editor of the Seattle Times, who has a much more direct effect upon my life (and who is, consequently, more important, in my opinion.)
Grendel
To quote my OWN message of 2/07/92, since no one else seems capable:
'Oh, and in Beo's defense, I never in MY EXPERIENCES around him (and I did spend a decent amount of time with him) saw him treat a woman badly in any way.'
as those of you with a grasp of English will actually notice, I in no way stated anything about anyone's opinion of the way Beo has treated them as a man or a woman. I stated my opinion about what I had seen. Whether someone has told me Beo treated them like complete shit or not, has nothing to do with the quoted message.
That kind of nulls one part of Beo's argument. Whether Kalen said anything specific or not, I am not going to say. It has been quite a while now since we last discussed Beo and my memory is not good enough on our discussions that I want to have to defend myself on it.
Twoflower
Episode 3, "As the Modem Connects"
A falling out between the Livia/Amber faction and the Saphyre/She-Zog/et al faction causes a minor war. In this time, Kaptain Kmart makes his grab at network godhood, but is threatened with modem disfigurement by Mucous should he attempt such. The other Tacoma sysops jump on the bandwagon and soon we have a second war going on.
Twoflower's modem is assasinated by a difibulator on the phone box outside his new home, and the Milliways faction is struck a horrific blow. He has to resort to an ancient 1200 baud modem and his power (what little is left) is cut in half. The Milliways faction falls to being made up of only Twoflower, ford prefect, and Pan Man with a few backup supporters from off the boards.
In a lengthy speech in the Synergy room, Twoflower claims "I will be back, and I'll be nastier than ever." Only Beowulf is at all concerned about his claim to be 'nastier', but many wonder if he can at all make a comeback.
Meanwhile, a delegation from the East Coast, headed by agent v, secretly inflitrates the Seattle side of the network and upsets networking between Shades, Photosynthesis, and all their net partners. Soon the Seattle net is in chaos.
After power grabs by Z'ton, Mad Hatchet, and the Nighthawk/D:V faction (all of which were not successful), the Maven, with the backing of the MavenCit faction, controls the network. The Livia/Amber faction pulls out of it's war with the backing of Richard Goldfinder and err head, and frantically grabs for control, and the Maven's hard drive is destroyed by a trojan planted by the Amber faction.
With no one in control, and the once mighty Milliways faction brought to it's knees, can anything BUT chaos happen in Seattle? Can aide from the Olympia faction pull Seattle out in time before it self-destructs? Or will the forces of Beowulf be able to gain control?
Tune in next time, when you'll hear the Maven claim, "I only lie about 4 things..."
Beowulf
Angela, Angela, nice to see you back. I made a bet with The Great Zod that there would either be at least 1/2 dozen messages in here, this morning, or no response from Little Nemo. With the exception of Monday, this topic had been fairly quiet since Twoflower announced he would be giving his final comments on said Monday. Not that anyone listens to him, you understand.
"YOU ARE QUOTING ME OUT OF CONTEXT! AND WITHOUT MY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE!" Sorry, that isn't true, but I had to say it:) Let's see, I have to get 1/2 page down before I come to anything that isn't just subjective opinion... "Menolly" Menolly was a user on Mayday some years back. I rather appreciated her because she was an imaginative poster, then she went off to college. In my message I would have said that was 10 minutes in the last three years, but between two and three years ago I gave her a ride home from a campout(which took about an hour and twenty minutes). I realize that Angela will not see anything inconsistent in this, but a woman that "more than dislikes me" agreeing to be alone in a car with me for an hour and twenty minutes? I thought coyotes chewed off their paws for less. Prior to that, I arranged to get her some term programs from Jeff Eide, and delivered them to her at Highline Community College. We talked for about a half hour, when I delivered them. I realize that Angela will see inconsistent in this, but if Menolly had, at that time, more than disliked me she could have refused my help, or simply excused herself when I delivered the programs. No, to me, this indicates that the opinion that she hold was formed within the last two years. The time in which she has had a relationship with Twoflower.
Angela Davis indicated that she has never talked to me, never met me, and still thinks of me as a jerk. In truth, we have had many conversations stretching back to the days of IronHenge. All on the boards, though. Personally I think Angela would be capable of thinking me a jerk, if she had never read anything I posted, or even heard of me.
As an example, she states that Little Nemo is correct, regarding censorship just before Little Nemo admits that censorship is acceptable, under circumstances. This is the kind of logic that I have come to expect from Angela.
Beowulf
Grendel, I said that your message was contradictory to the information supplied by Twoflower. I may have been mistaken. So, let me ask you directly. Twoflower stated that my "respect for women was legendary", implying "disrespect". Would you say that I am disrespectfully of women? I'm just asking for your opinion here.
Fred
Totally astounding. It's amazing how long a room like this can survive. I suppose with anarchists on the net, it makes sense to have a place for folks to attack each other. I've a couple of questions though.
1) If I were posting in here, would I be the one accused of controlling the net? I support people who wish to net a room or two with a *limited* number of boards, and heck, the toy connects as many boards as any of them (I won't call it a hub though, too yuppy).
2) Does netting a room to a limited number of boards constitute net control? I don't think so myself, but can see how others would feel differently. Frankly, without full path support on the net I can't see how net control could happen, though a person could choose which boards got a certain room. Synergy Unltd. started out (I belive Saphyre and I were the first two boards to carry it) as a room for sysops who could work together. Now that implies a certain amount of room netting control. Since then, it's become a more or less open place to bitch (no offenese intended Saph). I bypass it on a regular basis now, and will probably delete the room and group before long.
As for some of this other crap, please be amused by it. You know, you can have different opinions, and still both be 'right'? Two very good people can disagree, and still neither one is an asshole, right? What blows me is that many of us can accept the comments of the anarchists here as gospel, and start fighting amongst ourselves. Point in fact (since it's a flaming room), Grendel spends a considerable amount of effort getting others to go at each other's throats. Yet even people I respect (like Ganelious) can see him as a worthwhile person. In fact, so do I. But he'll never get an account on the toy again either.
Please do trash everything I've said here, I won't be back for some time, since I see this as total bullshit anyway (the toy doesn't carry Sysop Forum).
Little Nemo
For those who are interested in accuracy (which may not be all of those in this room), the American Library Association defines "censorship" as "The actual removal of materials from open access." Therefore, telling someone to "shut up", "calm down", "lay off", or whatever is not, by that definition, "censorship."
Might I recommend some reading materials to clarify things?
_50 Ways to Fight Censorship_, Dave Marsh
_The First Amendment Book_, Robert J. Wagman
The Seattle Public Library also has flyers readily available that list many books and articles on the topic, as well. Enjoy your reading!
Angela Davis
"I realize that Angela will not see anything inconsistent in this, but a
woman that 'more than dislikes me' agreeing to be alone in a car with me for
an hour and twenty minutes?"
Why do you "realize that Angela will not see anything inconsistent in this"?
This does not logically follow from anything I've said.
=====
"Angela Davis indicated that she has never talked to me, never met me, and
still thinks of me as a jerk."
Also incorrect. I did not say you were a jerk, and to determine that I
think you're a jerk without me saying it requires some form of mind-reading
on your part, vast body of non-verbal/textual evidence, or other absent
source. In reality, I said, "I can see how someone can determine that
you're a hypocritical jerk without calling your board or talking with you
directly." I hope you recognize the distinction.
For you trivia buffs, I have said of Beowulf that (1) a particular behavior
he was demonstrating was "downright dysfunctional", and I later implied that
(2) age has made him "paranoid and bitter about things".
=====
"In truth, we have had many conversations stretching back to the days of
IronHenge. All on the boards, though."
And therefore not covered by, "I, for example, have never talked with
you..."
=====
"As an example, she states that Little Nemo is correct, regarding
censorship just before Little Nemo admits that censorship is acceptable,
under circumstances."
I did not, "state that Little Nemo is correct... regarding censorship." In
reality, I said, "Regarding censorship, Little Nemo has illustrated the
difference eloquently." The difference she eloquently illustrated is between
telling someone to be quiet, and enforcing it. One is censorship, one is
not. I was not stating, "that Little Nemo is correct... regarding
censorship." I can explain the difference here, if you need that.
=====
"This is the kind of logic that I have come to expect from Angela."
Thank you for that testimonial.
=====
That's all for this episode, Faithful Viewers. Until next time, remember
our Program Motto: It Could Well Be True, But Bad Logic Won't Prove It.
John H. Dee
I've been following this maddness for quite sometime now, and still have absolutely no opinion on who's right and who's wrong.
I really would like to know how all this annamosity all began and if those of us new to the net are going to be able to remain neutral...
Captain James T Kirk
HAHA.. This is better than tv...
Beowulf
Beats the heck out of me, also. Like I said, until I announced my divorce Twoflower was a good and contributing user on Mayday. After that I found that he disliked me(if that be strong enough). Same situation that happenned between him and The Great Zod.
I really hate having to deal with people that are not firing on all cylindars, but Angela Davis.... stating "I mean, how do I fit into it? Maybe I should learn your real names, or something. And we should get together to plan the revolution." Do I really have to point out that Twoflower said that Angela Davis was uploading his journals to Milliways. Or that one of the early version of the net-route actually had Twoflower's name in the code? C'mon Angela, tell us how you are a just a innocent bystander making objective observations. I think this amount to another "Gimme a break!".
So another voice from Milliways says "if someone considers any pressure on them to 'shut up' by people they don't like to be 'social' pressure, then they must not have many friends." I don't know what this Milliways crowd has about "friends". First ford prefect, and now Naut Humon, mention it, in posts from Milliways. Oh well, "social pressure" has nothing to do with "friends" or "people they don't like". Social pressure has to do with what one perceives as "acceptable behavior". If one is flippant, arrogant, obnoxious, and is supported in this behavior, it become the social norm for that individual.
Little Nemo, if I understand you right, you are saying that you have the right to tell someone to not speak, or stop speaking, but this is not censorship, because they need not comply with what you are saying. This would imply that you are aware of the fact that what you are saying might be ignored. That, if ignored is not censorship, if not ignored is not necessarily censorship. Is that about right?
This is as opposed to "Deleting their messages, on the other hand, IS!"(censorship). I presume that you believe that censorship is a violation of Free Speech. (I am going to refrain from talking about "freedom of speech" refering to speech, and censorship refering to something written.) Yet, you state "As far as pulling slanderous messages -- if a message actually fits the definition of slander, it can be pulled."
You believe that deleting messages is censorship.
You believe it is permissible to delete slanderous messages.
You believe in censorship.
Don't warped out of shape over this. "Censorship" is just one of those words that have a involuntary emotional reaction. Though most of the people that have a black & white view of life don't see it this way, "Censorship" is not wrong. It is how, and why, censorship is used that determines the right or wrong of it.
Saphyre
Very creative Twoflower!
Grendel
Gee, Fred, how do I spend considerable time getting people to go at each other? I post my opinions and comments and I abuse people who are assholes and/or just being stupid. Shucky. As to an account on the toy, as I recall from our last phone conversation, you killed my account because I dared to hack Peter's BBS on a dare and a whim. Oh well. Peter has forgiven me and we are even friends now. I'm not too worried about your opinion of me and my anarchist tendencies. They are well known and I make no effort to claim otherwise.
Beo, other than the normal 'guy' comments that have been made when we were sitting over at Greenlake or out at coffee between ourselves and/or others, I haven't seen you do anything 'disrespectful' towards women. I don't think I've really seen you even interact with them that terribly much other than when Kalen was around. I don't consider the comments you made disrespectful either (considering I made similar and guys will be guys when with guys).
Ganelius
RE: Censorship - It is often a good idea to censor oneself before sticking ones lower limb into ones mouth all the way up to the knee. Therefore I will stifle any comments I might have about all of this in the interest of healthy posture and peaceful demeanor. :)
Twoflower
Beowulf can go on attacking and attacking a person who isn't here.
I will say what she has said to me.
She doesn't like Beowulf. She hasn't ever really. Not when he gave her a ride home. Not when he did anything for her. She never really liked Zod or Lady A either. She's a very different person and will go unobjectingly with people she doesn't like if someone suggests so, if for no reason other than to keep people from realizing that she is uncomfortable with certain people. She did this for months with me when we went over to Zod and Lady A's house; I never realized it was making her very upset inside, not until she finally said "I don't want to go. At all."
To explain why she DID spend any time with any of the above mentioned people, I can only say that she had friends who were friends with them and to keep it all hunky-dorry, she didn't say that she was upset. (This should be more clear than my previous paragraph.)
Beowulf can claim what he wants (as he said, he has hardly ever talked with her face-to-face and she doesn't post much about how she feels). I am only relaying what she has said to me over the past 2 and a half years.
I will also post my group's paper on censorship in the censorship room when it's done. It should run at least 20 pages or so (ugh!), but it does cover everything from music to pornography to news to books.
ford prefect
twoflower, pan man, and ford prefect.
warriors of justice.
Twoflower
a most frightening thought, ford.
Angela Davis
Welcome, Faithful Viewers!
=====
"I really hate having to deal with people that are not firing on all
cylindars..."
Oh, glorious! Now, I'm insane! Mu-hahahahaha! Kill the messenger! Kill
the messenger! Mu-hahahahaha!
=====
"Do I really have to point out that Twoflower said that Angela Davis was
uploading his journals to Milliways."
To be complete, you'd also have to point out that I tried two other boards
first, but they were both too slow. Eventually, I found Milliway's number
and set up a room. As well, you should mention that I upload my regularly
upload my journals to other boards, as well. But... oh... goodness gracious!
By the time you give the Whole Story, your argument falls apart! What's a
man to do?
=====
"Or that one of the early version of the net-route actually had Twoflower's
name in the code?"
Magnificent! To tell the whole story, you'd also have to mention that one
of the early versions of NETROUTE also had The Great Zod's name in the code,
and a bevy of other users. I guess I'm buddy-buddy with both these people--
seeing how they're not the bestest of pals, it must get confusing! And you
should also explain that it's a regular way I track bugs (by using the name
of the person who reports them to flag that they're still occuring). I
suppose that everyone who ever reported a bug to me is part of Twoflower's
conspiracy, yes? If so, those people in Tacoma have some big news coming
their way!
=====
"C'mon Angela, tell us how you are a just a innocent bystander making
objective observations."
Innocent! Ha! I never said I was innocent. All I am doing is living up
to our Program Motto.
=====
Ms. Nemo: You're doing marvelously, Dear. But if you get tired, just give
me the word, and I'll pick up a racket.
=====
Now it's time for the Logic Patrol Scientific Poll! If you like what you're
seeing on the Logic Patrol, and would like to see more Dispatches like this
one, please drop me a note! Or if you'd rather not see them, for whatever
reason, let me know that, too! I try to keep them accurate, witty, and
bubbling with mirth--let me know what you'd like to see more of!
Until next time, remember: It Could Well Be True, But Bad Logic Won't Prove
It.
Little Nemo
Oh, BTW --
if ignored : not censorship
and
if not ignored : maybe censorship
is NOT at all what I said.
But it's 4 am and I'm too tired to explain the difference. Maybe tomorrow.
Little Nemo
I think Ganelius has the right idea...
I use "Freedom of speech" as a shorthand for "Freedom of speech, and the press (and expression)", if that clarifies it for you.
If you refer to p. 143 of the above-mentioned book _The First Amendment Book_, you'll find a chapter on libel (the *printed* version of slander, essentially. I suppose BBS messages should technically be considered libel, not slander, if they meet the qualifications). It says:
"Every individual has a right to his or her reputation. Libel, in its most general sense, is any publication that is injurious to the reputation of another.... it has always been held that the press is responsible for anything it writes. That alleged injury is usually termed 'defamation.'... Defamation is defined as *false* expression that injures an individual's reputation by lowering the community's regard for him, or by holding him up to contempt, ridicule, or hatred."
By that definition, I'd say there have been quite a few potentially libelous, or slanderous messages in this room. Now, I don't know if those statements were FALSE or not. I am not a judge, and I don't have all the facts at hand, either.
But freedom of expression, as stated above, does not extend to defamation. I have no problem with that. (Satire is not generally considered to be defamatory, incidentally.) Now, I believe that free speech does extend to obscenity, and even stupidity, which is something I think we've all seen too much of in this room. But defamation is NOT COOL. And I suspect both sides of the recent going-on have done a little defaming.
Yes, Angela, I am getting a little tired of this. It seems that no matter how many times I post, I get nowhere. If it wasn't so important to me that people understand the basic concept of free expression (yes, it's one of my pet topics, I admit it), I suppose I would keep my mouth shut. (or my fingers still, as the case may be.)
Beowulf: I don't believe I have ever met you, or if I have I don't remember. Perhaps you will forgive me for saying, though, that one gets the feeling from reading this room that maybe you're not a very nice person. Am I wrong? If so, why not make it more apparent? (Let me add that if I had not already met Twoflower, I'd probably post the same to him -- though admittedly he's been showing more humor in here, and therefore seeming less strident.) If y'all don't like people... ignore 'em. This bashing gets tiresome.
Agressiva
misinformation is not lies.
misinformation is not rumors.
misinformation is ART.
Beowulf
The disciples of Twoflower gathered up stones to cast at the evil
creature that blasphemed against their lord. The first stone was cast
and bloodied the small child on her forehead.
"Stop!" The faithful paused in confusion. Twoflower passed through
them to the small child. Placing his hand upon her forehead, he spake
thusly, "Let you that is without sin, cast the first stone."
The faithful looked among themselves. They look to their lord.
They look at the stones.
Twoflower spake, once again, "Just kidding, kill the slut.", and
walked out of trajectory, whilst the abomination clutched after him.
The faithful looked among themselves. They looked to their lord.
They looked to their empty beer cans.
Seeing their confusion, and being moved by it, Twoflower addressed
them, "I was just kidding. It was a joke. I was just yanking your
collective putz. Christ, just stone the slut. Geez!"
The disciples laughed and rejoiced. This was a joke. Now that their
lord had explained it, it was perfectly clear! Then they stoned to death the
small child, and all was good.
The disciples cursed the blasphemor for splattering blood upon
them. Angela Davis congratulated Livia on wonderfulness of the work
they had done. Truly it was good and just. They gladhanded each other
and rejoiced. Even ford perfect seemed filled with the spirit or
righteousness.
The disciple, Naut Humon, spake thusly "We have done good. We
have defended free speech, once again!". The others looked to him and
paused, then assured him he was correct.
Having run out of reasons to congratulate themselves, the
faithful returned to the feet of their Master.
As his lord Twoflower was once again explaining that he was not
their lord, and that any that spake otherwise were to be harassed,
ridiculed, or intimidated, a blind cripple approached the gathering.
"What smells like a slaughterhouse around here?" The cripple
asked.
Angela Davis said "A vicious creature may have been attacking the
poor holy man, Twoflower."
Livia spoke "It claimed he controled the network, being wrong, we
had to destroy it."
Naut Humon spoke up, "It was censorship! We were fighting for
free speech!"
Once again the the others looked to him and paused.
ford perfect scolded, "It was a dumb drunken slut. Christ, we
don't have to explain anything to some bastard just because he's a
crip, we're Twoflower disciples! Or rather we aren't his disciples
because, of course he doesn't have any."
The blind man said, "I meant no offense, but don't you think
someone should cleaning the mess?"
Twoflower rose up, and pointing at the blind man, spake "Christ,
another one, kill the asshole."
Beowulf
Little Nemo, go down to the downtown library and look up the "Prime Facie" case for defamation. You do not need to prove information false for it to be defaming(at least not in this state). This is a common misconception because "Discoverable Truth" is a defense. That is, if the "public" could readily discover, through reasonable effort, that what was said or written, was true then it could not be defaming.
Beowulf
Oh, by the way, have I mentioned that the camp trip that I drove Menolly home from was an Outer Limits campout, hosted by The Great Zod and Lady Almathea. So, to presume that the implications of Angela Davis, and the statements of Twoflower are correct, Menolly not only accepted a long ride home, alone in a car with someone she did not like, after she had spent the weekend camping with people she did not like.
For the Friday night coffee crowd, I was meeting a couple people last night and ran into the old Art's/Finnegan's waitress "Darlene". See said to say 'Hi!', and threatened to do me bodily harm if I mentioned where she is working now:)
John H. Dee
Is this about to enter the sticks and stones phase?
brent
hey, todd old pal.
It is after Monday.
Either pipe down as you said you would, or forever look like a fool.
Anglela: keep it up. I would if I had the patience.
Little Nemo
Beowulf, I don't have that particular case in front of me, though I'm sure you're correct about it. However I don't think that what I said above necessarily contradicted anything you just said.
Whether any of that affects the situation here is anyone's guess. Personally I don't care if anyone here is a "drunk fuck" or a "slut" at all. It's not my business. So I'm not going to bother investigating its truth or falsity.
Little Nemo
I may ask Pops in here again to clarify legal issues, since he has a law degree and I do not (and I don't know if Beowulf does).
Beowulf
No, ART is the guy who own's the Supermarket down on Holman Road. Sorry Little Nemo, but Angela is just being too verbose. Catch ya on the flip side:)
I must apologize to Angela Davis for my error. I presumed he thought of me as a jerk. I see this was an unfounded conclusion. When I announce that a twit had tried to scroll the userlog on Mayday 1, in Twit List, and Angela Davis responded with "Have you thought it might be because you are a jerk?". Then again, here in Sysop Forum, "Now, all the rest of you have to do, is claim that you think Beowulf is being a jerk, too, and he'll say he never like you, either.". Obviously by Angela saying "I didn't say you were a jerk,", I realize that my conclusion were completely unfounded . Sorry I had something stuck in my throat.
So, despite the fact that I don't like dealing with people whose elevator shaft goes all the way to the top, but the elevator doesn't, I can play by their simplified rules... Angela Davis...
Angela Davis said "In reality, this statement is manufactured (say man-YOO-fact-churd)." Prove that the statement was subject to any process that could be considered "manufacturing"? Heck, I can swear that the remark was no where near a factory. Where does this person come up with these ideas?????
Angela Davis said "Twoflower knew he could not end it, and it wasn't even his intent to." Angela Davis not only knows what Twoflower can, or can not do, but she knows his intentions as well!
Angela Davis said "Why do you 'realize that Angela will not see anything inconsistent in this'?", then goes on to draw the following conclusion "This does not logically follow from anything I've said.", without waiting for a response. Why is he asking questions, if he is going to reach his conclusions without the answers.
Angela Davis said "I have said of Beowulf that (1) a particular behavior he was demonstrating was "downright dysfunctional"". I don't recall Angela referring this to me, though he could have. I do remember Angela saying "Now, Twoflower is just being abusive, but that is downright dysfunctional." Perhaps Angela just need to work on expressing himself more clearly.
Angela Davis said "paranoid and bitter about things". These may or not be true, but Angela does not have the credentials for making such a decision. So even proof supplied to support these claims, by him, would be meaningless.
Angela Davis said "Now I'm insane!" This is another fine example of the conclusion jumping that Angela Davis has become known for. Never have I said that Angela is insane. Not in person, or on the boards. I don't even believe it. Now, if you were to ask me if I thought Angela was stupid, you might get a different response:)
Finally, there is the matter of the wonderful net-router. The Great Zod mentions the recursive problem to Angela, and gets a "I don't understand", and he does nothing to fix the problem. I'm not even sure he understand the error in his logic. If he does, he hasn't mentioned the preventative steps necessary to limit it.
ball's in your court, sweet heart
Twoflower
Beowulf, you are correct in your assumptions.
But your 'Christ' analogies are rather stupid.
JoAnne
You might wanna look up "prima facie", Beo. On account of that's how it's
spelled. And it means At first sight; on first view, before further
examination.
Lil' Devil
I think it hit the sticks and stones phase a while ago.... I must admit, Little Nemo has shown great restraint. And others are just being themselves. Ain't nothing you can do to stop it.
Naut Humon
whee!
you know, just as a side note, to try and start another war,
i care very little about thee fight twixt todd and beowaffle.
my freespeech kick, which beowulf seems to have interpreted as the 'twoflower faction' version of ss stormtroopers, is something i feel strongly about, and i'm tired of those people, like greyfox, like malcolm, like pat (who's last name i can't spell) who try to claim that censorship is right.
i am all for slander and libel being published.
the people that want to believe it, will.
the people that don't want to, won't.
free speech for all.
"people who say you're either a part of the solution or a part of the problem are a part of the problem themselves."
but angela, you evil communist conspirator you, keep entering your messages. they're funnier than anything i'll write, and they actually contain a lot of very useful and valuable information.
Waxed
Beowulf: After reading your attempt at humor-with-biblical-overtones, I have come to the conclusion that you suffer from an extreme case of paranoia. You seem to think that (almost) EVERYONE is on the "opposing side".
Ganelius
Angela: Forgive me if this question is rude, but I have become confused about your "digital gender". For awhile I thought you were female. Now I see you referred to as "he". Can you clear this up for me?
Little Nemo: Thanks for the agreement! :) As for your interests in free speech... I have serious questions about calling any of this speech in the sense of "free speech". How can anyone be certain that a message purported to be from user X is indeed from user X? It could be next to impossible to prove that a message originated from a particular person in court. Do you agree? The programmers of the software in use on the net have a great deal of control over the contents of the messages. The fact that this has not been a larger cause for concern up til now is a credit to these industrious folks.
Fred: Bet this scrolls before you come back! :)
General comment: To those that want to paint someone else as evil, insane, malicious, tedious or whatever. Humanity is not such a great group of ideal creatures anyway. We are destroying the planet, killing each other and any other life forms that cannot escape our "death" shadow. If you really have to be negative try broadening your scope. We all need a serious kick in the pants.
Have a nice day! ;)
John H. Dee
You know, there is enough creative disinformation and psycic ti chi happening around here that if you all would unify around a common cause, I bet you could even give Media something to ponder.
Grendel
I thought Angela was a woman. That seemed to be the case in the Feminism room...
Goliath
While this is all wonderfully laughable, a marvelously creative, it does get old.
Who gives a shit anyway?
Little Nemo
Ganelius: (Did I spell that right? :) Good point. Textfiles are so easily manipulated and identities are so easily assumed that I'm not sure what value any BBS posts have in court.
Beowulf
Welcome to the flip side:) Little Nemo, you need not correct me. You were just saying that you would be the judge of whether the material was slander or not, and I was suggesting that you look up the "prime facie" case (simply - standard case requirements), so you could judge adequately and fairly. I don't know about Pop's credentials. I asked him about slander to see if he would fall to the common misconception, and he did. It may be that defamation is just not his field of practise.
Meanwhile, I have to update the third piece of scripture. I've been trying to keep the satire contemporary, like adding Naut Humon's "Freedom of Speech/Censorship" displayed attitude(this is not to say that he doesn't feel this way all the time, he has been posting public messages about it, more of recent).
Whether Angela Davis male or female is not relevant. We are dealing with thoughts, expressions, and communications. They need not be gender specific. Personally I have seen, and heard, others refer to Angela Davis as a he, and neither they nor I(and I do expect that I would be corrected), have ever been corrected. By the way, Angela Davis was a political activist in San Francisco area, may still be, for what I know.
Angela Davis may or may not know logic, but he does know bad logic!
Pops
Little Nemo -- A printout of a BBS post would at least presumptively identify the speaker as the person using that 'nym on the board from which the message was posted. All BBS software that I know of prevents more than one user from assuming the identical name, so if a defamatory message from "Vicious Sadistic Pig" showed up from Slumberland, that would be enough to show that the user in your log with that 'nym was responsible. There's always the chance of a sysop or aide screwing around by assuming the identity, but that's no different from the risk of misidentifying the speaker or writer of any other form of defamation.
Beowulf -- you're wrong about defamation, or at least ACTIONABLE defamation. The US Supreme Court has held as a matter of federal constitutional law that the plaintiff in a defamation case MUST prove falsity -- either that the statement itself is false, or that a reasonable person would interpret it as implying something else that's defamatory ("Beowulf hasn't been convicted of child molesting in at least five years" is literally true, but implies you WERE convicted sometime earlier).
TaleTeller
Everyone who keeps on talking about it, Goliath. Hey, I wrote you into a story once.
I feel so.... unattacked, unaccused....
Beowulf
Ah, but Waxed, you think of it as an "opposing side", I don't. Twoflower and his friends refer to themselves as "factions". I have referred to them as "Twoflower & Milliways", "Twoflower's cliche(pun intended)", and "Twoflower and his friends". I just think of them as a joke, hence the satire. Glad you enjoyed it.
Waxed
Beowulf-- And your field of expertise IS defamation?
Why do I doubt this.
Why would I tend to beleive a lawyer of any sort (Pops) before I'd believe you in matters of the law.
Little Nemo
Beowulf -- I don't believe I said that I was the judge of whether items posted are defamatory. I certainly believe some of them to be, but I have also added many times here and elsewhere that I am merely a layman when it comes to legal matters and so you should take that into consideration.
I do find it fairly presumptuous on your part that you would presume greater knowledge on the topic than someone like Pops, though perhaps you have a law degree that I don't know about.
At any rate, I think we've all posted a lot of stuff for people to mull over, here, if they wish. Not much point in adding more to it.
John H. Dee
"There is no enemy anywhere?"
Flying Wombat
well, considering that a couple months ago, Beowulf was insinuating that Angela Davis was really 'caren park,' I think I'd rather rely on other sources of information on this matter.
anyhow.. Angela: do keep it up; it's entertaining, and the folks in here will benefit from anything that encourages the use of logic.
Little Nemo: your messages about Free Speech are not in vain, rest assured..
Twoflower: when is the Internet faction going to muscle in on this grand and glorious network? :)
Captain James T Kirk
Sheesh, did it ever work...
Livia
Pops: but what about the argument that someone else could have borrowed or hacked that account? I've known sysops who have it as part of their policy that a user is responsible for anything posted with their account, even if they can prove that someone else actually did it (punishment for carelessness, presumably): does that policy correspond with anything in the law?
Looks like Angela is spending the weekend in Tacoma. We can look forward to a really long and juicy Logic Patrol post on Monday. :)
Zog T. Barbarian
I really didn't intend to carry on this discussion. Mainly Beo is picking apart everything I say. Something I never thought he would stoop so low to do. Only Caren Park does that so well.
I misjudged you, I thought you had class and were cool. too bad. I got your womans scarf please come get it.
Waxed
Beowulf-- re: "opposing side"
The quotes were originally mine. Are you saying that *I'm* saying that there *IS* any "opposing group" against you?\
No, there are only multiple individuals who find your arguments quite annoying..
Waxed
!
ford prefect
amazing.
beowulf actually ended his post to jason with a .
i didn't know they knew each other so well.
if i were any more analytically-minded than i already am, i would have thought beowulf was sucking up to a higher mind.
but probably not - beowulf is just a cheeky, friendly, humble sort of person.
bull, ahem, shit.
Beowulf
Sorry, I'm so late, I was .... doing laundry.... yeah, that's the ticket!
Have any of you seen pop's credentials. And I mean any of you whose word could be trusted? Or do you all just accept him because the likes of Little Nemo, Livia, Waxed, and Flying Wombat/Zen Master believe him? Personally, I am skeptical of anything these people would believe. So, Pops, I'm often down to the Federal offices at Key Tower. Why don't you let me know what firm you work for, and I'll drop by and buy you coffee. Perhaps we even have a few common acquaintences in the Seattle legal circles.
I have suggested to Little Nemo to look up the "Prima Facie"(thanks JoAnne, my latin genders are a bit rusty, and the phrase came from a "we're on hold let's b*llsh*t" conversation with an attorney), case. Little Nemo felt this was presumptious and Waxed says this indicated an inappropriate field of expertise. Obviously these two don't want to get off their barstools(alluding to the pontifications of Norm Peterson and Cliff Clayven @ Cheers), and look up the proof, and feel offended that I suggest as much.
There have been times that I have been wrong, and I have admitted so. John Shannon once said, in his experience, I was the only sysop that ever admitted he was wrong and apologized. But sitting on your barstools telling me that I'm wrong, ain't going to cut it. Nor is "Pops", whose credentials are not known to me, and have reason to doubt(because of the credibility of his supporters).
Speaking of Pops, he seems to have missed that there is a 'unpleasant' custody case going on, and that some of the character witnesses have access to this discussion.
Speaking of Jason, average height, slim, slightly above average intelligence, dresses like the 'U' district "spider people", or big guy, wears a hockey mask? Meanwhile I await dear Angela's return. Remember Angela Davis may, or may not, know good logic, but he does know bad logic.
(I think that responds to all the seething remarks. If, I missed your remarkably intelligent barb, feel free to restate it. )
Twoflower
Beowulf:
May I point out that slander and libel have nothing directly to do with censorship?
To stop someone from slandering or libeling before they can do it is censorship.
To hold them legally responsible after they have done it is not censorship.
The slander and libel laws say nothing about 'you cannot slander or libel' but they do say 'if you slander or libel here's what you can expect.'
Geeze, wake up and grow a braincell. Better yet, grow two. You seem to need it.
And, may I also remind you that 'Twoflower(the man without honor)' is, of course, slander, as it is defamatory to my (ever so precious) reputation. 'Twoflower(who I believe to be without honor)' is not defamatory as it is a statement of opinion.
I'd suggest you change your macro.
Flying Wombat
cute. if Beowulf had ever accessed the 'Censorship' room, as has often been suggested to him, he would've known why many of us put some stock in what 'Pops' has said. perhaps he would've also refrained from defaming the character and credibility of quite so many people in here.
it should be apparent that 'Pops' is intelligent and knowledgable, and has stated the limits of said knowledge (he's evidently calling from NYC and thus doesn't claim to be an expert on Seattle-area laws.)
B*owulf, on the other hand, has posted innumerable errors of fact on myriad subjects, and combined these inaccuracies with aberrant attempts to provoke antagonism, smear his imagined 'enemies,' and generally be abusive. if he hadn't kept up this behavior over 4+ years, I would still be giving him the benefit of the doubt. but, he has created the situation he's in, and he can live with it. I still don't >hate< him, even after all the bullshit he's pulled; I do wonder why he has such a need to alienate people.
Livia
(And if you're changing the macro anyway, Beowulf, make it whom rather than who... and put a space before that damn opening parenthesis!)
James Shields
Uh, hey folks, I know this is the "sysop flame room"... but aren't you ALL taking this too far. (for those who might question, I am including all of you, Beo included) I mean, it's one thing to flame on someone for a particular action. It's another thing entirely to continue to do so for an extended period.
I think that it's sad that this group of relatively intelligent people find that it's necessary to do this for so long.
Pan Man
And for those of you that feel that Twoflower is out of line because he is still arguing, smeg off.
Certain people JUST WON'T DROP THINGS.
Twoflower doesn't want to fight any more... apperently by the lack of recent posts, Zod doesn't want to fight any more...
Hell, Grendel doesn't want to fight any more.
Nobody loves watching this more than I do, but still.
When you don't have an opponent, a fight is sort of pointless, and begins to look stupid in a short while.
(The image of the world famous self-wrestler comes quickly to mind)
So Beowulf. Shut up. Please. For the sake of a scroll rate. For the sake of letting Angela Davis do something besides post intelligent and thought provoking things that make everyone look less logical than him 24 hours a day. For the sake of the children of small foreign countries that we will never visit unless we are scientists that have nothing to do with this but just might be influenced eventually if this keeps going.
DROP IT.
Your friendly, loveable, young co-sysop.
Pan Man
Beowulf
Twoflower was doing something wrong. His friends supported him in this. I argued with him, but, in my opiunion, it was pressure from the unaffiliated sysops that stopped him. Whether he has learned anything from this, is yet to be seen.
The dialogue with Little Nemo, Angela Davis, ford prefect, and naut humon serves no real purpose. I have dealt with it because it was directed at me, or about me. Though requiring almost no time or effort, it is also hardly challenging, so I even doubt the entertainment value.
The up side is that Mayday 1 keeps getting more new users, and more boards wanting to net(two this last weekend, two before that, and one that is being set up), as this dialogue continues.
Little Nemo
I never said bringing up "prima facie" was presumptuous. I said it was presumptuous for you to assume that your layman's credentials are better than Pops'.
As far as his credentials, he works for a MAnhattan law firm, and yes, I have seen proof of this, though I don't currently remember what the name of the law firm is. And I think he went to law school at the University of Michigan, though I'm not sure. He'll have to clarify that for you. He does call from NYC. You can also contact him via CompuServe, if you wish. Maybe he'll post his CI$ number in here for those who are interested.
BTW, those of you who were at the September CB at Godfather's on 145th
and 15th may have even met the guy, since he was in town that week and
we took him along to the CB.
Beowulf, every time you try to paraphrase something I've said, you get it wrong. It is a waste of my time and everyone's message space for me to keep correcting your errors of interpretation. I have a lot of patience with people generally, but it's running out.
Little Nemo
oh, BTW, I rarely (if ever) drink, so references to me pontificating from a barstool are rather ridiculous. Perhaps you can find a better simile.
Beowulf
Ya'know I was going to respond to Zen Master's remarks, Sunday, but Pee Wee's Big Adventure was on. Pee Wee Herman or Zen Master, Pee Wee Herman or Zen Master, Pee Wee Herman or Zen Master. It was a tough choice but Pee Wee won out. The deciding factor was that Zen Master would be logging in under his other nym, Flying Wombat, and supporting himself, and I could deal with it then.
Okay Pan Man, the sake of the children of small foreign countries that we will never visit "blah blah blah"(quote attributable to livia)*, is something not to be ignored:)
Regarding Pops being in New York, between the fact that the branch of my family with money, lives from Boston to Arlington, my company having an office in New York, and this advanced age of electronic, that should be no problem.
*(ya'know, I always thought that you had to seperate, more than two guttural noises with commas. Live and learn:)
Twoflower
'pops' is a real person. He attended the coffee break at 145th and 15th n.e., whenever that was, last summer. He was here in Seattle from New York. As for how Little Nemo met him, she can describe that.
He is an articulate, knowledgable, and intelligent person. As for his legal credentials, he's the only one in here with any, as far as I know.
Twoflower
Wait, I remember that was the September CB, because I had had my wisdom teeth pulled on Friday and still managed to eat pizza on Saturday.
Pops
Beowulf -- I don't practice law in Washington State. Several of the users here have met me, and can form whatever opinion they want about my intelligence and expertise.
But I think you're confusing the principle that if a statement is defamatory, damages are presumed with the principle that a statement which damages someone else's reputation is presumptively false. That was the common law rule, but it's been repudiated as a matter of federal constitutional law.
Bugs Bunny
"We have met the enemy and they are us!"
Ganelius
Err Head
wow
i'm sorry i haven't read this room since k-mart and mucous were going at it
i appear to have missed lots of fun stuff
damn
oh
and one comment with respect to netted messages
i know any number of people who could with great ease introduce networked messages from any board from any one into the network that would be difficult to tell from truth
so proving anything in a court of law could be difficult, at least with regards to libel
but keep up the argument
the parodies
and most of all the logic patrol
i think i'm gonna check out some of the other excluded net rooms
maybe things are getting interesting again...
ford prefect
beowulf sure seems intent on alienating just about everyone here, in this room.
i can
't wait to see who befriends him in the end.
beowulf: our points DO serve a purpose, but because you are such a goober, such an egotistical head-up-ass slime, you won't accept any logical argument because you KNOW you're right.
you're not.
and nobody likes you.
not even hadley hysmith.
Grendel
oooh
Beowulf
Ah Pops, you have read my messages by now, and can respond accordingly. You will forgive me if I do not believe such supporters as Twoflower, proven to be a liar within this very conversation, Little Nemo, who will not get off her proverbial barstool even to prove me wrong, and Zen Master/Flying Wombat, who needs to have two identities to get someone to agree with him. As was shown is the last congressional races, this is like having George Bush campaigning for you(known affectionately in republican circles as "the kiss of death"). I will await information on how I can contact you.
Meanwhile, I do appreciate your reference to "common law". I covered the application of such in my lectures on The Act to Commerce and the railroads, in my Transportation class at Shoreline. "Common Law" is an interesting subject, but I digress.
You have discussed "defamation" here, but there are two distinct forms of defamation, slander and libel. Slightly different rules apply to each. This may be where we diverge. I believe that proof of falsehood is part of a libel case, but slander need only be injurious. This has been supported by the research I have done. Once again, though proof of falsehood is not part of the prima facie case, reasonable discovery is a defense.
Kid Charlemagne
meanwhile, unknown to the rest of the network, crabapple and an unknown alien WWIV sysop have decided to call in the REAL stormtroopers.... as in, opening a WWIV/Cit gateway to crush all feeble net coup attempts with one blow.... ":)
[impossible? maybe. but you heard it HERE first.]
Little Nemo
I'm getting message doubling in here again... routing through Photosynthsis twice, it seems.
Twoflower
But the counter forces of the Texas/Internet gateway aliens holds sway, as a deep and evil storm arises in the south...
:)
Little Nemo
"will not get off her proverbial barstool even to prove me wrong"? What on earth do you mean by that? Much of what I've said throughout this mess has proven you wrong already, and whenever anyone scores a point against you, you twist his or her words around and defend yourself on false premises.
If I had any hope that you could be a reasonable, rational, or at least POLITE human being, we could have an enjoyable
argument. I don't expect people to agree with me. Sometimes it's fun to disagree. But you don't seem to be able to enjoy polite discourse without attempting to drag people down.
I don't support anyone who acts that way. Not Twoflower, and not you. I will not be dragged any further into the muck, which is where your arguments seem inevitably to lead. If someone asks a question about censorship, or other issues of interest, I'll answer. But I won't continue any sort of discussion with you right now.
BTW, next time you're looking up Latin terms, why not look up argumentum ad hominem? You might like that one.
Sharon Ann Campbell
How about 'argumentum ad naseum' by now.
Beowulf
Little Nemo, you have yet to prove anything. You simply say it, and call it true. Considering that you thought that "Prima Facie" was a specific case, my alluding to the pontifications of Norm and Cliff(which I even made notation to keep you from misunderstanding) you thought referred to drinking, telling me that there was no rule regarding Coffee Break, when I had written it, heck, on 2/11 you said you really didn't want to be involved in this, but have continued posting. You really expect that your word would be credible, in view of this? I had hoped for better from you, live and learn, I guess.
Ford, gee, if Hadley Hysmith dislikes me so much, you think she would have mentioned it last Thursday when I had coffee with her and Z'Ton.
My favorite latin expression is "Nullus Sudor". The Romans enjoyed puns a great deal more that we do today.
James Shields
Gee... it gets worse and worse every day. "Proof", "credentials"... this isn't a trial folks. Someone should capture this room and then put it in a public room for all the users to see. This is REALLY stupid... all of you should be ashamed.
Waxed
Beowulf, you have yet to prove anything. You simply say it, and call it true. Considering that you choose to not attempt to comprehend any ~opposing~ viewpoints, and your misguided metaphors succeed only in distorting any ~proof~ presented to you that you don't wish to see, you are carrying a load of stale arguments much too far to bear. Who really CARES what insipid rules you may have arbitrarily PUT on Coffee Breaks? You insist on still being involved in this, and you have continued to harass and annoy. You really expect that your word would be credible, in view of this? I had hoped for better from you. Live and learn, I guess.
Beowulf
James, someone comes to you and presents themself as an attorney, and starts giving you legal advice, some of which you find questionable, would you not check their credentials. If not, would you be interested in some oceanfront property in Idaho?
Err Head, what you say about libel may be true, but what about slander. What if the character witnesses in a custody hearing were influenced by the lies told in here. Not only could that be proven, by asking them, but there would be no question of damage.
I see that Twoflower, the man without honor, is still posting. Better dig out the next chunk of scripture.
Waxed
In reference to the comment to Little Nemo:
"Considering that you thought that the 'Prima Facie' was a specific case..." - Beowulf, Tuesday, 2/25/92, 10:48 AM
Twice YOU referred to the "Prima Facie" as a "case", not a principle. I cite two examples:
"Little Nemo, go down to the downtown library and look up the 'Prime (sic) Facie' CASE for defamation." (capitals mine) - Beowulf, Friday, 2/21/92, 10:34 AM
"I have suggested to Little Nemo to look up the 'Prima Facie' (...) CASE." (capitals mine) - Beowulf, Sunday, 2/23/92 4:05 PM
Also, in reference to Little Nemo and myself:
"Obviously these two don't want to get off their barstools...and look up the proof..." - Beowulf, Sunday, 2/23/92 4:05 PM
I don't believe either of us have been appointed as the network's fact-checker. Post it for yourself.
Apparently, Little Nemo has decided an argument with an impolite,
manipulative person isn't her cup of tea.
Little Nemo
As I've implied, I will no longer argue with Beowulf. No doubt he will now say that since I'm not arguing with him, I must accept that he is right. Well, I don't accept that he is right (on most things, anyway), but I see no need to defend myself from baseless accusations and character assassination. If anyone wants to decide for him or herself, who is right, read our previous posts and make your decisions. See ya in the funnies...
Pops
Beowulf, for constitutional purposes both libel and slander are classed together under the law of "defamation." At common law, slander was HARDER to win than libel -- except for four specific categories of defamatory speech (insulting one's professional reputation, accusing someone of having been infected with a "loathesome disease" [historically VD or leprosy, now I'm sure AIDS as well], accusing someone of having committed a crime, and accusing a woman of being unchaste [yes, a woman ONLY]), a plaintiff needed to plead and prove specific, tangible injury resulting from the comments for them to be actionable at all, whereas libel law has always presumed damage from defamatory statements.
All of the recent decisions have involved libel law rather than slander because libel constitutes about 99% of the litigated cases, but the principle requiring plaintiff to show falsity is the same in both.
I'm just TERRIBLY sorry that you don't think any of the people who have met me are worthy of your respect or consideration. Your loss. Are you now done telling me how to practice my profession?
Twoflower
nah.
just 'nauseous'
Grendel
Beo just wants to get the final word in and prove everyone wrong, as usual.
Agressiva
nothing worse than a cornered rat.
Lil' Devil
No comment Grendel, no comment.
Naut Humon
exactly.
this room should BE a public room.
which is why i asked twoflower to start up a netted sysop/user dialogue roome, which is now (theoretically) netting with slumberland and... er...
damn, some other board i don't recall.
so if what i've been discussing in synergy unltd is of interest to you, get on the proverbial stick and start netting that room.
i think it's really very important.
because right now, your 'average' user is out there, somewhere, and they are aware that there is a 'war' going on. but they don't know why, they don't know who, and they don't know how bad. so it is going to get blown out of proportion.
if you're going to fight on a system like this, where your shit stays for days and days, and things continue to heat up, there is no reason to NOT include everyone else.
fuck, i'm not involved in this, little nemo isn't, really, and a bunch of the other sysops and foax in here aren't either.
but we can read it.
if we can deal with it in a mature (or immature) fashion, then so can the other users on the net.
we're no better, that's for fuckin' for sure.
Beowulf
James, why should I be ashamed of trying to prove that I am right when I am? Twoflower, the man without honor, should be ashamed of his lying. Little nemo should be ashamed of her inability to understand the concepts of censorship and free speech when she so loudly proclaims to support them. Angela davis should be ashamed of his incomplete grasp of logic and bull-headed determinism to falsely use it in order to make fools of everyone. Naut Human should be ashamed of his entire assholish exitance.
But I have nothing to be ashamed of. I am merely trying to prove to those dozens of quiet spectators that I am the one who is in the right. So as soon as all of these liars and fools and honorloss dolts quit their baseless attacks upon me, this whole thing can blow over
Angela Davis
All this looks just wonderful. Great entries, Waxed, Pops, and Little Nemo. Welcome to the conspiracy.
Livia
Naut: "some other board I can't recall" = Amber.
James Shields
It is something to be ashamed of. That you would spend so much time and effort trying to convince others of something that in the end will mean exactly nothing.
Bugs Bunny
Gee, Am I glad that I set my message limit 2000 characters. I've seen Beo cut off in mid post many times and TwoF a few too!
Beowulf
Ah, Pops, I see you responded to the matter of credentials, or rather didn't, again. As I said before you being in New York is not a problem. Just let me know the firm(address and phone number would be nice also), your name, and we'll work something out.
Beowulf
Waxed, you will note that the Pops did not corrected my reference to "Prima Facie" as a case. It is called the "Prima Facie" case. It isn't so much a principle, as an outline, in a very simplified sense.
As for my proof, might I remind you that Little Nemo has been trying to prove me wrong, not the other way around. Yet she supplies no facts, just her opinions.
Twoflower
Not only did I never claim that the discussion was over. I also never said I would not post in this room again. I said that i was done with the argument. I will continue to post verbosely and frequently about other subjects. I'm just going to refrain from arguing with beowulf about this whole mess.
Saphyre
Is that what this is all about are you worried that some character witness has changed his/her mind or may change his/her mind? Whoever the character witness is had better have stronger opinions than to be changed by a bunch of flames in a room designed for the purpose of flaming.
Don't take this wrong Beo, I am not slamming you and I really don't want to become a part of this BS, I just feel that anyone who really knows someone won't be swayed by this sort of garbage. I have been looking for a purpose in all of this mess and can't really see why it is continuing unless there is a need to discredit all of the unknowns, I think you will understand.
Twoflower
Only 2000? That's less than 1/4th of the network limit.
Beowulf, not one person has seen fit to agree with you here. You have not posted on single bit of evidence of anything you say. Your quotes and pointing out 'contradictions' have been wrong. You continue to slander and/or libel me, even by your definition. You even continue to argue about Coffee Breaks, which you have not had (by your own will) anything to do with in over 3 years.
Why don't you PLEASE just buzz off so nice people like Little Nemo and Pops and Angela Davis don't have to listen to all your crap when they didn't ask for it. And learn something about censorship. You still don't know diddly/squat.
Naut Humon
i'd like you all to know that i really CARE!!!!
Naut Humon
of course, what's most amusing about being called someone who should be ashamed about his whole assholish existence in THIS room is that i've been remarkably polite (for me) in this room, and towards beowulf, figuring he didn't need yet another ex-user of mayday turned er.... turned into a user that doesn't use mayday yelling at him.
... and i STILL contend that i am not an asshole. that's just a myth craeted by the opposition.
and agressiva, you know what i like to do with a cornered rat?
sand the edges down.
Crabapple
I am setting up what?
Pops
Beowulf, if you're so damned suspicious, how would you know I was telling the truth if I DID post my name and firm? For all you know, I could be working out a deal with some friend who IS a lawyer to identify himself as Pops if someone he doesn't know from Seattle calls.
If it will make you happy, though...find a library with the 1991 edition of the Martindale-Hubbell Legal Directory for New York (the 1992 edition's not out yet). I'm the fourth name in the right-hand column on page 936B -- gives my date of birth, place of birth, education and all.
Grendel
What is this Bullshit?!
I thought I'd seen bad in here before, hell, I even participated in bad shit in here before but this whole game of Beowulf's has got to take the gold medal for sheer stupidity and pointlessness.
Beo, let it drop. You are losing respect amongst the few here that *did* respect you fast. I see people that I thought were your friends (and were in the past) posting messages about your little games and tirades here. EVERYONE is tired of it but you!
Beo, GIVE IT UP! You can't win because they never even started the game. You must see this as some sort of contest or something but you are coming off as the a complete and utter asshole. Is *THAT* what you desire?
(Hell, ME playing the role of some sort of Referee here?!?! You *know* its bad when I do shit like this!)
James Shields
Maybe everyone should just delete this room from their board. Maybe we can start over somewhere else... maybe w/o all the pointless flames.
Agressiva
you are all wrong!
you are all stupid!
beowulf is the only bastion of intelligence in a sea of unfairness.
my god, guess who he's becoming.
just louder and more stupid.
Ganelius
I suggest leaving it in this room and keeping it relatively private. Geez! Do ya want everyone to know about this abominable foolishness?
Goliath
Beo ==> You are starting to look like an ass. And, you are doing it to yourself.
Just thought I should let you know.
Kid Charlemagne
okay, from the sportscasters booth... so far we've seen several icing calls, five personal fouls, and one illegal formation (the zen master team seems to have an extra player). the referee is having a bit of trouble enforcing the penalties, however, because the captain of the mayday team seems to think he's actually a milliways stand-in.... meanwhile, at least two teams, slumberland and shades, have withdrawm from the field, apparently to wait for a rink to open up so they can play their own game.... meanwhile, the mayday team continues to take cheap shots at the milliways players even though a time out has been called....
and i thought professional wrestling was vicious.
Flying Wombat
Beo: it's interesting that you prefer "Pee Wee`s Playhouse" to "Sysop Forum." Do you emulate him, or merely admire his work in the theater?
James Shields
I think it would be beneficial if everyone knew about this foolishness. This is beyond pathetic at this point.
Waxed
Jesus Christ, Beowulf! Once again, YOU have referred to the "Prima Facie" as a "case", but you maintain that Little Nemo was incorrect in using the same terminology YOU, YOURSELF, used!
Your empty, flip-flopping arguments are a discredit to whomever taught you logic. In layman's terms, they're bullshit. So, kindly take your bag of shit and eat it. :)
The Evil Prince
Pops@ Slumberland - Hello! you may want to start calling my board in NYC instead of calling the left coast. Hope to hear from you. I leave it up most nights after 11pm.
Bran Tregare
Grendel, Et al, unless someone can give me a GOOD reason not to, I'm putting this room in the root hallway of my bbs for public access tomorrow, AND Advertising the fact.....
The Great Zod
If this room is to be "published" (that is the correct term) I want the messages containing defamatory remarks "edited" (also correct) out.
The analogy of a magazine holds true to the end in this case, as all the material is there, and will be knowingly released.
This editing request pertains to messages concerning myself.
This room was never intended for public review, and I think it rather unconcienable that you would think to do it. A close analogy would be dropping a microphone into a group of people having a conversation, and then broadcasting it, without their knowledge..
Crabapple
And people ask why I don't want to net these rooms.
James Shields
Please, Bran, put this room in public. Maybe someone in here will stop...
Grendel
Beo is like the neighborhood bully that shows up when the local kids are playing baseball. He pushes them around, yells at them, taunts them, and then takes their ball away.
Then he wonders why no one will play ball with him.
Bugs Bunny
Gee, does anyone here watch BEATLEGUESE the cartoon on tv? Just the other day he was fighting with a foul-mouthed B.O.-wolf. Synchronicity in action?
:)
Twoflower
(should I say ZM, agressiva?)
Little Nemo
Hey, KidC, is that a challenge from Shades? :) :)
Shane Johnson
As stated from the begining... Sysop Forum is a System Administrator (Regardless of the Network he belongs to) forum... TO DISCUSS not ARGUE issues relating to BBS's and Telecommunications in general. I'm sick of this shit in this room about BEO and GRENDLE not liking each other, BEO pissing off the groups of people on this network who are opposed to censorship, and generally say the same thing over and over and over and over and... I'm sick of this. If it doesnt stop, I being a programmer MIGHT be tempted to dissallow networking to a SELECT number of systems and I MIGHT incorporate a #ALIENATE_NODE just to nuke ALL messages from the network (OR to be even more twitty, echo ALL of a nodes Messages BACK to a system to the SYSOP via MAIL.) This would be a nifty little trick and easy to accomplish. (I might even go as far as tripple the amount of NET MAIL that goes BACK to a node.)
Now I really dont want to do this, and I am really sick of seeing the same arguments. Take it to mail or drastic measures WILL be done. Thanks.
Naut Humon
... if you don't want to see the arguments, shane, you don't have to read the room. i'm sure that those of us who get our rocks off reading such goofiness would be glad to inform you as to when the argument finally dies.
San San
Are we having a little anarchy attack?
The weird and the bizarre...
swish
resident
shane. quick question.
how bbses that are networking now run your software?
how many would want to run software that will not network with all the nodes there are?
grow up a little.
Twoflower
Shane, as has been said before, #DISCARD_NODE or any other form of the option is not acceptable to the majority of sysops on this network, and many will work to remove any node using this option.
As NH said, if you don't like this room, don't read it.
There are many other rooms to discuss network policy.
Livia
I think Shane is the new Net-God wannabe.
LaDzhaRi
This is CYB's last net for a while. Yes, due to financial things I'm selling my computer. Sorry for not being on very long, but I do wish the next time I come back that there might be less arguing. It seems so utterly pointless. Anyway, bye for now.
Sysop Forum> _