Twit List>

#941 55 Sun Jan 19 10:12:36 1992 DK Lance @ InfoNet TechSupport, Seattle Area
Cave Bear....that sould read "...take any innuendos..."
#943 55 Mon Jan 20 20:27:29 1992 DK Lance @ InfoNet TechSupport, Seattle Area
TOPIC POLICE...!!!!...OPEN UP !!!...!!! Do you have a permit for that idea ?
#942 55 Tue Jan 21 21:20:10 1992 Joe Carrasquillo @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
Thanks dk
#944 55 Thu Jan 23 17:27:32 1992 Kid Charlemagne @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the moon, Blue Station
ooo, DK's back. hi dude. have a beer.
#945 55 Sat Jan 25 16:16:53 1992 []$[] Russ []$[] @ The Madhouse, Close to the Edge
Nooooo, but I do have this receipt for my application for a permit to get a clue about having an idea... (once had an original thought, but it died of loneliness.... :)
#946 55 Mon Jan 27 20:58:09 1992 Joe Carrasquillo @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
Ferris Bueller, Paul from Dreamscape said: "Hey tell him I said hi, and for him to get his butt over here, I'm running at 2400 now and slowly increasing the file library."
#947 55 Tue Jan 28 17:03:49 1992 Beth @ InfoNet TechSupport, Seattle Area
< DK? "hi dude" "have a beer" DK ? ? ? >
#948 55 Wed Jan 29 14:40:59 1992 [HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY] Shasta [JOY JOY JOY] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
I was going to suggest a room like this... I'm not the only smart one! hehehe
#949 55 Wed Jan 29 16:06:16 1992 [Happy Happy Happy] Pretty Eyes [Happy Happy Happy] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
net test
#952 55 Wed Jan 29 19:23:32 1992 Kid Charlemagne @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the moon
h. HGH h w룜d vk $m $ $p$.... ":)
#950 55 Thu Jan 30 12:57:44 1992 She-Zog @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
howdy Pretty eyes!! we miss ya :( So, how's Memphis?
#951 55 Thu Jan 30 16:29:10 1992 Fred @ Fred's Toy, Bothell
Got it, Pretty Eyes.
#953 55 Thu Jan 30 20:51:22 1992 [Mr. (Pointy eared)] Russ [Spock] @ The Madhouse, Close to the Edge
Hi there Pretty Eyes. You netted up here to Everett, WA just fine...
#954 55 Thu Jan 30 21:18:11 1992 [Hi im] Ferris Bueller [who the phuck are you?] @ Footprint, Lynnwood, WA
Hi PE! Glad to see that your netting! Net test recived!
#956 55 Fri Jan 31 03:09:54 1992 [>>SPROING<<] Shasta [<##>] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
Hiya everybody!
#955 55 Fri Jan 31 06:36:13 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
PE: you really may want to change that region to something other than Memphis. There is a board out there that in Tennesee.
#957 55 Fri Jan 31 08:22:15 1992 [Evil Vixen] Pretty Eyes @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
cool!! Memphis as in the board or the place?? i'm not moving to Memphis, it's Atlanta, Georgia.. (of all places)
#958 55 Sat Feb 1 18:57:41 1992 [It's the one and only........] King Royal [who saved Pretty Eyes! hehe] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
YAY!! we're netting!!!!!!! well, this board won't be here in Washington much longer, BUT it will still be netting from Georgia...soooo....it will still be alive...
#959 55 Sat Feb 1 22:50:54 1992 [Evil Vixen] Pretty Eyes @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
and i'm thinking about changing the name.. i dunno.. i kinda like it. :smile:
#960 55 Sun Feb 2 01:40:34 1992 [It's the one and only........] King Royal [who saved Pretty Eyes! hehe] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
well...who knows
#961 55 Sun Feb 2 08:48:44 1992 Cave Bear @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
Hey Pretty Eyes, they've got some really kool dance clubs in Atlanta just south west of the CDC. If you get a chance, take a drive over to Savannah Beach. The clay on the beaches makes for great sculpturing projects and the water is warm!
#962 55 Sun Feb 2 15:12:38 1992 [>>SPROING<<] Shasta [<##>] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
If your planning on changing the name lets have some ideas and then some votes?
#963 55 Mon Feb 3 01:09:53 1992 Shane Johnson @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Not to mention Savannah's Beer! :) I miss WZAT (the station to listen to if you're near Savannah... :)
#964 55 Mon Feb 3 01:10:36 1992 Shane Johnson @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Hey PE: When you go I want to arrange to visit this summer... ;) I want to see Georgia and Savannah (That is IF I can afford to go...)
#967 55 Mon Feb 3 11:52:20 1992 [Once again] Saphyre [has a new # 725-5512] @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the moon, Blue Station
I know she knows that, having been an aide and co-sop on Shades for 8 months or so....
#965 55 Mon Feb 3 18:36:45 1992 Fred @ Fred's Toy, Bothell
Pretty Eyes; Did your net partner tell you that this is a sysop-only room?
#966 55 Mon Feb 3 21:33:03 1992 [Evil Vixen] Pretty Eyes @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
Sure, Shane.. i've got your address, so you can be expecting me to write!
#968 55 Tue Feb 4 10:13:11 1992 [Evil Vixen] Pretty Eyes @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
yeah, it's owned by group sysops. as are a few of the other rooms that i know are only for sysops.
#969 55 Tue Feb 4 21:08:21 1992 [It's the Sys-GREEK-God] King Royal [who saved Pretty Eyes! hehe] @ (Not the Real) Graceland, Memphis, Next door to ELVIS
Yeah, I'm a Sysop on this board..not just a co-sop..a Sysop(remote, but it doesn't matter)
#973 55 Fri Feb 7 13:50:33 1992 [<*=-] Waxed [-=*>] @ Slumberland, Seattle, US 206 283-6771
Thou shalt live by thine own rules.
#970 55 Fri Feb 7 23:47:42 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
THE THIRTY COMMANDMENTS OF BBSing --------------------------------- 1. Thou shalt love thy BBS with all thy heart and all thy bytes. 2. Thou shalt remember thy name and thy password. 3. Thou shalt speaketh to the SysOp thy real name. 4. Thou shalt not POST IN ALL CAPS! 5. Thou shalt honor thy SysOp. 6. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's password, nor thy neighbor's real name, computer, software, nor any other thing of thy neighbor's. 7. Thou shalt only call a BBS two times a day. 8. Thou shalt not post messages that are stupid, worthless, or have no meaning, lest thee be deemed a fop. 9. Thou shalt use the English language properly so that thee may be deemed wise. 10. Thou shalt spell thy words correctly. Amen. 11. Thou shalt delete thine own mail. 12. Thou shalt delete thine ancient mail. 13. Thou shalt help other users so that thee may be deemed a friend. 14. Thou shalt not post anonymously when offering criticism. 15. Thou shalt keep thy foul language to thyself lest thee be forever banished. 16. Thou shalt not occupy thy BBS with thine arguments, for Verily, I say unto thee that thou shalt maketh thyself the charlatan. 17. Woe be unto the user who attempth to crash thy BBS, for such shall be cast out from the sanctuary of thy hobby and must repent by doing 40 mega-days and 40 mega-nights of penance in voice-only communications. 18. Thou shalt first dial BBS number during the day by way of voice line to assure correct numbers. 19. Thou shalt not post other user's real names. 20. Thou shalt not post messages after imbibing excessively of ale. 21. Thou shalt confine thy messages to those of friendship, requests for assistance, aid to the needy, advice, and advancement of thy hobby; yea, and thou art obligated to repel any who wouldst transgresseth upon these commandments. 22. If thou promise to reply to a message and thou doth not, then surely thou shalt spill liquid into thy keyboard and shorteth out thy central processor. 23. Thou shalt not give out any false information when applying for membership to thy BBS, for Verily it is Written that whosoever shall do so will surely be found out and thy welcome on all boards will be thus be denied forever and ever. 24. Thou shalt log on properly and in accordance with the SysOp's wishes. 25. Thou shalt observeth BBS time limits. 26. Thou shalt not upload "worm" or "trojan" or "virus-ed" programs. Amen, for to do so wilt bringeth foul curses upon thee and thine children, and thy children's children, unto the 7th generation. So, shalt it be. 27. Thou shalt not ask stupid questions that art already fully explained in BBS bulletins and instructions. 28. Thou shalt not exchange commercial software thru thy BBS. 29. Thou shalt not violate any applicable state/federal/local laws and regulations affecting BBS telecommunications, or thee will face the wrath of thy judicial system. 30. Thou shalt not hack. [As appeared in Volume 3, Number 2 (February 1992) issue of BBS CALLER'S DIGEST]
#971 55 Sat Feb 8 13:54:34 1992 Livia @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
items 11 and 12 are sooooo relevant to Citadels
#972 55 Sat Feb 8 15:37:57 1992 resident @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
and, for that matter, 25. (if you don't observe it, you will be kicked off automatically...)
#974 55 Sun Feb 9 14:02:47 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
"It was a joke, livia. However I do believe that Seattle modemers fall into some fairly distinct groups, and that some of these groups have a better sense of humor that others."
#980 55 Sun Feb 9 19:13:26 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Most of those are not relevant.
#975 55 Sun Feb 9 20:43:13 1992 Kid Charlemagne @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the moon, Blue Station
(this confirms it. beo considers himself god of this network. someone get the restraints and the thorazine. )
#977 55 Sun Feb 9 20:44:44 1992 [Don't] Lil' Devil [me that way....] @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
You tell ehm Livia!
#976 55 Sun Feb 9 20:56:17 1992 Livia @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
woo woo yes, i'm quite famous for being absolutely humorless
#982 55 Sun Feb 9 22:28:20 1992 Bugs Bunny @ Memory Alpha, Kent, US 206 859 6200
Speaking of twits... Isn't anyone going to say hello to me? :)
#979 55 Mon Feb 10 00:33:22 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Ah, my worst fears are confirmed. Humor is in short supply 'round here. As far as the 'god' part goes.... Nobody rules the net. Some people have more influence that others, but this is always shifting. Even Dragon, in the days when all netting Cits were DragCits, couldn't shut up people who weren't ready to shut up, or make people adopt a policy they really didn't like. Nobody can now, either.
#978 55 Mon Feb 10 00:50:33 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
forget the restraints. get a timex sinclair to gag him with.
#2458 55 Mon Feb 10 14:02:09 1992 [Modest Goddess] JoAnne @ Chateau Aspen, Burien
As with all gods whose commandments are ignored, sysops who think they are gods will fall into the mist and become part of the BBS myths.
#981 55 Mon Feb 10 14:31:25 1992 Livia @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Eh? Beowulf, is there any particular reason that you're quoting chunks of an earlier post of mine, out of context, without quotes, and without attribution? Oh, wait, it must be a joke. Me and my non-sense of humor.
#988 55 Mon Feb 10 18:49:10 1992 [Memory Alpha SysGoddess] Heather R. Scott @ Memory Alpha, Kent, US 206 859 6200
Does anyone know anything about a Baby Face Nelson? He's a co-sysop of a board down in Auburn... called here and posted a BBS ad in Lobby, then logged off... sigh.
#984 55 Tue Feb 11 00:35:04 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
ahahahahahah. that wasn't funny.
#985 55 Tue Feb 11 00:38:56 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Yep that it livia, just your lack of humor. Heck, I parphrased you, and got accused of delusions of godhood. I thought these bigots would lynch me for saying something, that was, in fact, a quote from you. Besides, what is "out of context, without quotes, and without attribution" garbage? I thought clear thinking logic like yours, would have to be accepted as universal constants:)
#986 55 Tue Feb 11 01:16:07 1992 [sysop] Joe Carrasquillo [of a.f.g.e.,a.e. & c.b.l.] @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
Aw man! Just bought some new silk bikini underwear and the damned things keep sliding up my butt!
#987 55 Tue Feb 11 07:33:17 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Hi Bugs, what's up? If The Abyss is running a networked Citadel. I would recommend that their netlinks tell them about this room. It sounds like they have a real problem.
#993 55 Tue Feb 11 08:43:51 1992 [Hi, im] Ferris Bueller [who the phuck are you?!?] @ Footprint, Lynnwood, WA
Sounds like a problem there Joe :-)
#989 55 Tue Feb 11 12:06:56 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Gee, Beowulf, if you hate so many people on the network, why do you net at all? What ever happened to the nice little network you and your 'cronies' had?
#990 55 Tue Feb 11 13:14:39 1992 Livia @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Beowulf: "a quote from you" implies that the text in question was surrounded by quotation marks. Like so. As for "clear thinking logic like yours", it's a singular subject and so could hardly be "accepted as universal constants". Wow, if you expected people to immediately notice that a few semi-related phrases not in your usual style were things I had said in another room a few days earlier, then you must think I'm some kind of Net God or something... :)
#992 55 Tue Feb 11 15:34:43 1992 She-Zog @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
Joe... have a beautiful woman pull them down with her teeth.... they're designed that way just for that purpose :)
#983 55 Tue Feb 11 15:52:59 1992 [Clear the roads...] Captain James T Kirk [Audin's in trafic safty...] @ Columbia Crest BBS, Olympia, US 206 786 9248
Bugs, Hello.
#991 55 Tue Feb 11 16:58:51 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
beo, you should stop shooting that heroin and smoking that crack. it's making you stupider than normal. really. this isn't a flame, it's an embarrassed plea for you to stop making such an incredible ass of yourself. but if you think it serves a purpose, i guess that's your business. thou shalt not be such a shit you don't know you are one.
#1011 55 Tue Feb 11 17:23:00 1992 [Let's get DANGEROUS!] Goliath [37, badguys 1] @ Footprint, Lynnwood, WA
Ford, what about Fred?
#995 55 Tue Feb 11 17:25:57 1992 [Mess with the best] Angela Davis [die like the rest.] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
He nets because he enjoys the hate. When someone does something repeatedly, it's generally because they either enjoy it, get something they need from it, or have not yet learned the cause-effect relationship which brings them there.
#996 55 Tue Feb 11 19:17:42 1992 [Voyage of the] Flying Wombat @ Age of Aquarius, Seattle, WA
oh, but we are Net Gods here.. we will smite anyone who blasphemes against us. let's start a Network Deities room, and talk about all the mundanes who fear our hegemony. :)
#999 55 Tue Feb 11 20:08:34 1992 [Modest Goddess] JoAnne @ Chateau Aspen, Burien
Drat! As usual I am confused. Beo didn't want the sysop forum to become a flame room; he wanted it to be a place to trade ideas. But it didn't happen. So now, does he want TWO flame rooms? This here and that there? :-) By the way, Beo, is that you appearing over on Satellite? And oh yeah, about men's underwear... well, actually I don't think about it much, but there was an article on CNN this evening about this new idea for you guys. It is an idea that is supposed to defeat that old problem of the shirt coming out of the pants when you move around? Well, this design... how to describe... it's got buttons, no snaps, in the front part, the part where it's important to have snaps, and it's all attached together. I mean, the shirt part and the shorts part are sewed together so that you won't have that age-old problem of your shirt hem showing... it really has to be seen to be believed. My first thought was the first time you raised your arms, you've got a problem errrr... elsewhere.
#994 55 Tue Feb 11 23:17:46 1992 Grendel @ PhotoSynthesis, Seattle, US WA 206 323 2433
Beo doesn't realize his shit smells too.
#998 55 Wed Feb 12 01:19:18 1992 [sysop] Joe Carrasquillo [of a.f.g.e.,a.e. & c.b.l.] @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
She-Zog, get Zog a pair and we can do a runway routine for ya :)
#997 55 Wed Feb 12 01:24:25 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
I don't think there are many users out there who respect sysops anymore. At least, not just because they are sysops. Not that I'm upset about it. Respect used to be reserved for someone who was a good programmer and was willing to shell out bucks for equipment and a phone line. Now anyone with a cheap old PC can download stable software to run for free. Only thing you really have to pay for (since most of you have already got the cheap PC part) is the phone line...
#1000 55 Wed Feb 12 04:25:27 1992 She-Zog @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
There are a few sysops that I have respect for, but not just because they're sysops, they earn the respect they receive because of the person they are.
#1001 55 Wed Feb 12 07:51:41 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
I rest my case. You folks have proved all that I have claimed, by your remarks here. I paraphrase livia, and get accused of trying to be a net-god. I quote her directly, and people rip me a new bodily orafice. Angela is right, though, I do love dealing in conflict with people like this. Get used to it folks, I'm going to be around for a few decades. (Welcome back Grendel. I was a bit worried about you after that "in defense of Beowulf" message in Sysop Forum:)
#1002 55 Wed Feb 12 10:52:00 1992 [lonesome gargoyle] ford prefect [yearns for heaven] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
i respect most of the programmers around. and the ones who run boards, i respect even more. however, noone seems interested too much anymore. why should we respect you, twof? beo? livia? anyone? gee. let's start naming programmers who still have their own boards. 1. richard goldfinder. well, that about wraps this up.
#1006 55 Wed Feb 12 14:18:12 1992 [Once again] Saphyre [has a new # 725-5512] @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the moon, Blue Station
he-he-hehehehehe-heh! >insert humor here< -*SMILE*-
#1003 55 Wed Feb 12 14:38:36 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
I'm impressed. Beowulf didn't even mention that I let 'super twit' naut humon (aka moo cow, aka the desk of lucifer, aka lucifer drake, etc...) into the sysop rooms. He isn't using the most obvious ammunition he could. Oh, and for all you sysops out there scared of obscenity, I had a user called under the name of 'chucky edwards' and post a message of 'fuck' over and over again. I'd assume that this was just to take advantage of my open message policy (it's still there in my lobby), but if you see a chucky edwards, you may wish to watch him/her/it closely. Maybe even give chuck my regards. It was highly repetative.
#1005 55 Wed Feb 12 14:52:58 1992 Grendel @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Beo, with all of my failings and lack of good temper, I usually make an effort to give what I see as the truth or the facts as I have seen it. I have a bad temper and am not the easiest person to get along with (especially when my temper is up) but I consider myself a fairly honest person. That is why I defended you. I think there is enough ammo in the guns concerning various people without adding outright lies to the list as well. I think Anarchy is the Net-God anyway...
#1014 55 Wed Feb 12 17:16:44 1992 [Don't] Lil' Devil [me that way....] @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
I think Fred could qualify as two.
#1007 55 Wed Feb 12 17:26:04 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
just for the record, i'm not a super twit. i'm a net-twit-god. i just want to be like everyone else.
#1008 55 Wed Feb 12 18:05:08 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Oh, ok. net-twit-god. You peer presure tadpole, you.
#1010 55 Wed Feb 12 20:38:04 1992 [Mess with the best] Angela Davis [die like the rest.] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Programmers who still have their own boards? Well, uh, I think I do, Dear.
#1009 55 Wed Feb 12 20:58:15 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
JoAnne, could you do an ansi drawing of those? :)
#1004 55 Wed Feb 12 23:53:10 1992 [Memory Alpha SysGoddess] Heather R. Scott @ Memory Alpha, Kent, US 206 859 6200
Programmers that have boards... you forgot Fred of Fred's Toy, who wrote FredCit... Centauri, who runs Centauri's Place, and wrote CenCit, and several others.
#1012 55 Thu Feb 13 03:04:37 1992 [lonesome gargoyle] ford prefect [yearns for heaven] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
that's why i asked, you dolts. i wanted to know. forgive my mental relapse. fine, richard. fred. centaurit. and the esteemed angela davis. four, out of a once-great seven.
#1013 55 Thu Feb 13 05:34:17 1992 [sysop] Joe Carrasquillo [of a.f.g.e.,a.e. & c.b.l.] @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
Re: "Programmers who still have their own boards?" Fred McCLain [Fred's Toy], Ray Johnson [TurboTech], Angela Davis [Loves Pretty Colors], Richard Goldfinder [insert bbs here, I don't know her name], Jeramiah Johnson [The Log Cabin], The Maven [see RG above or aft], and Iknow I'm forgetting a couple.
#1015 55 Thu Feb 13 07:14:24 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Z'Ton still runs his board, but as a private system. Ray is still running TurboTech. Desk of Lucifer was an aide over on Mayday, until he stopped calling. He has never been 'persona non gratis', over here. Heck, he was the one that changed the lobby room's name from "Lobby" to "Welcome Home", so many years ago. When he was posting messages in the sysop rooms, and taking flak from Jeremiah Johnson/test account/GridMaker, and Zen Master/Flying Wombat, I sent him mail offering him a copy of Stonehenge to keep on his hard-drive, so that claims of not being a sysop would be false, by this networks standards.
#1018 55 Thu Feb 13 12:17:59 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Does the Maven have a board? I didn't think so, last time I checked.
#1016 55 Thu Feb 13 13:14:44 1992 Livia @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Maven doesn't run a board at present. Fred's main board doesn't run FredCit. I think ford may have been implying 'run a board with their own software', ie, 'do their own primary testing'.
#1020 55 Thu Feb 13 14:24:06 1992 Dave @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Fred has 3 that I am on ;]
#1027 55 Thu Feb 13 14:48:40 1992 Kid Charlemagne @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
thanks ford. sunset grill is still active, albeit as a shades shell board. the gentleman loser (my test BBS) isn't open to the public because i don't want to tie up our phone line, or piss off the voice callers.... 'tis important, yes. although i'm not sure why anyone really CARES anymore... seems the sysops in here are either pissed at beo for no discernable reason, pissed at beo for discernable reasons, or beo, therefore pissed..... in any case, people like me are DEFINITELY gonna have to start using smileys again....
#1019 55 Thu Feb 13 15:10:05 1992 [lonesome gargoyle] ford prefect [yearns for heaven] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
jesus everybody seems unbelievably stupid! the question is, as livia so intelligently pointed out, is: how many programmers still run a board, publicly, with their own software? z'ton's isn't public, or even up. the maven doesn't currently run one. fred's isn't his software. and remember, we're talking citadel or citadel clone. but i remember one you clowns didn't: red dorakeen's roscoecit. but are the programmers of the following running their own boards? nightcit psychocit sortacit and if so, i want to know.
#1017 55 Thu Feb 13 15:17:22 1992 The Maven @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the Moon, Blue Station
Well, no, Joe, I don't actually run a board. I don't have the extra phone line necessary. But thanks for the thought.
#1033 55 Thu Feb 13 18:40:04 1992 [starmusic] Zen master [with deep-brown eyes] @ Age of Aquarius, Seattle, WA
no, there certainly aren't very many programmers who have boards, not that it would really make much of a difference except in efficiency of alpha testing. and as far as TLC, although the code only has minor differences from my version, it is nonetheless distinct.
#1021 55 Thu Feb 13 20:26:15 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Thought is not running sortacit. I believe that Beast Master is running PsychoCit (I think he's the programmer...)
#1025 55 Thu Feb 13 21:46:37 1992 Cave Bear @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
Geez, I'm gonna have to revert back to my old personna here. Hey ford, okay, now I understand. Duh!
#1024 55 Thu Feb 13 22:56:32 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Ford, regardless of Livia's intelligent, if incorrect, pointing out, your message of 2/12 stated "gee. let's start naming programmers who still have their own boards. 1. richard goldfinder. well, that about wraps this up." If you wanted to qualify that as "and running their own software on public systems", don't forget Ray and TurboCit. The Night Stalker took responsibility for NightCit, and runs it on The NightShift BBS, which is presently lacking a phoneline, from my understanding. The interesting aspect of The NightShift BBS is that it was running on a Mac.
#1026 55 Fri Feb 14 00:15:39 1992 Dave @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Fred is running a FredCit as an application ;]
#1028 55 Fri Feb 14 00:38:16 1992 [Once again] Saphyre [has a new # 725-5512] @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the Moon, Blue Station
Fred's are run as doors off the Turbocit. Maven I saw it and we net once in a BLUE MOON so that makes it a board that is run by the programmer
#1022 55 Fri Feb 14 00:57:32 1992 [Memory Alpha SysGoddess] Heather R. Scott @ Memory Alpha, Kent, US 206 859 6200
You're forgetting TurboTech... Ray has has his board up for ages...
#1029 55 Fri Feb 14 04:39:50 1992 She-Zog @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
yes Dave.... Fred is running fredcit on a sub-board of Fred's Toy.... as a test site. And ford you didn't specify that they had to be running their own program, although you may have meant it that way. I believe Beastie and Mad hatchet are responsible for Psychocit and it is run on their board. And Joe C..... sounds good to me!!!! when?
#1023 55 Fri Feb 14 04:52:50 1992 Bugs Bunny @ Memory Alpha, Kent, US 206 859 6200
Aye Captain?
#1537 55 Fri Feb 14 09:20:02 1992 [Let's get DANGEROUS!] Goliath [37, badguys 1] @ Footprint, Lynnwood, WA
For those who haven't noticed the absence, POC is down. BeastMaster sold his IBM and is now on an amiga. Maddy is on something else, and so PsycoCit is currently out of the picture.
#1030 55 Fri Feb 14 13:39:27 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
agressiva is still running elegia, despite the fact that it has no networking code at this point. Milliways has never and never plans to be run on software written by it's sysop. Why should I go through all that work when 8 or 9 other people are willing to do it for me?
#1031 55 Fri Feb 14 18:17:32 1992 [lonesome gargoyle] ford prefect [yearns for heaven] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
so do we have a complete list, or what? no for my second question: those sysops, running their own board with their own software, work pretty hard on it. they pay for the line, and give up their computer time for your calling and posting and etc. given that, do you respect their work? name the sysops you respect and why.
#1032 55 Fri Feb 14 19:29:24 1992 Livia @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Last note on the first question: running your own software as a subboard doesn't entirely count. There are a lot of things you can't test when running as a subboard -- modem stuff, for instance, or how long the system can stay up without crashing.
#1534 55 Sat Feb 15 01:59:50 1992 [<*=-] Waxed [-=*>] @ Slumberland, Seattle, US 206 283-6771
And of course, Infidel, run by me in a in-house phone system, completely isolated from US West. Current testing hardware includes: 1 Amiga 500 w/20 meg HD and SupraModem 2400 Plus, 1 Tandy Model 4P with 5 meg HD, 2 Timex Sinclairs with one 16k RAM pack, 1 Tandy Micro-CoCo with 16k RAM pack, 1 GoldStar 2400 baud modem that doesn't work at 300 baud anymore, and 1 Anchor Automations 2400 baud modem that doesn't like to dial out, but answers just fine.
#1535 55 Sat Feb 15 06:39:21 1992 She-Zog @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
Livia.. Fred doesn't need to test those things.... that's what Alpha testers are for. I don't know most of the programmers mentioned Twoflower.... Ihave alot of respect for Fred, Kid Charlemagne, Maven (although he's not running a board right now).... But that has more to do with the person they are, not because they have a board with users that call and run their own program.
#1536 55 Sat Feb 15 11:30:47 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
ford: you make it sound like these sysops are 'giving up' these things (computer time, phone line, etc, etc) and getting nothing in return. why should i respect anyone because they've decided that's how they have the most fun? seems sort of silly to me. being a sysop gives you your own board on which you may play god/emperor/president or ceo. it gives you people to test your software. now, don't you think that because of this, sysops should respect the twit users who create things like hoseterm, because it helps them to fix their software and firm up their positions in regards to things like free speech? i sure do.
#1539 55 Sat Feb 15 17:53:56 1992 [Voyage of the] Flying Wombat @ Age of Aquarius, Seattle, WA
hmm, I think Naut Humon has a point this time, in that sysop-programmers >are< doing what they do for their own sake, and "respect" isn't relevant. anyhow, if people weren't in it for the sense of power over "their" callers, they might just adopt a peer-to-peer networking arrangement, where the concept of a "hub" BBS becomes rather different than what this net has now.
#1538 55 Sat Feb 15 21:16:57 1992 Grendel @ PhotoSynthesis, Seattle, US WA 206 323 2433
Waxed, concerning Infidel, how are you managing this exactly? I am interested in the technical aspects.
#1540 55 Sat Feb 15 23:35:06 1992 [<*=-] Waxed [-=*>] @ Slumberland, Seattle, US 206 283-6771

#1541 55 Sun Feb 16 17:40:34 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
exactly. maybe angela would describe her idea for what i consider to be a revolutionary change in bbses and networking. i don't recall enough of it to give the idea credit, but it is something along the lines of what you describe, f. wombat. the whole myth of the sysop performing this 'sacrifice' and demanding respect and 'honor' for it is part of the reason this whole bbs war phenomenon got started in the first place. if the net were more fluid, as far as connections and msg transfers go, then wars like this would never happen. or rather, they would still happen, but it wouldn't be as moronic as this last one has been. i think sysops, as a whole, need to learn to not care so much about their boards, and worry more about the content of their own messages. help to get rid of the 'greyfox' syndrome. stop policing everyone else, and just police yourself, as much as you want to .
#1542 55 Mon Feb 17 07:52:53 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
You will forgive Naut Humon, he has said repeatedly that he does not believe that sacrifice(as well as selfless acts), even exist. As such you can understand his point of view. Personally, as programmers, I respect Jeremiah Johnson, but not as much as Zen Master, though not as much as Dragon, though not as much as Dave Bonn, though not as much as Cynbe ru Taren. Which brings up to Glenn Gorman. Personally, seeing how much respect people have for copyrights 'round these parts, I can't believe there is all that much respect for programmers.
#1543 55 Mon Feb 17 15:07:13 1992 Cave Bear @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
I'd like to quote Fred of Fred's Toy..."...sysops are no more important than their users."
#1544 55 Mon Feb 17 16:03:18 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Running a BBS is hardly all that much of a sacrifice anymore. a $200 XT (like RoB's). $80 to install a line. $15/month for the line. $50 for a used modem. software is free. take the system down whenever you feel like using it. Or better yet, buy a second $200 XT. Now, back when you had to run a BBS on your $1000+ Apple, program your own software, and spend $500 for a 300 baud modem that would auto answer, that was when the sysops were making some sort of real sacrifice. Now nearly anyone can put up a BBS. And many do.
#2241 55 Mon Feb 17 16:28:50 1992 The Night Stalker @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
As for programmers, I highly respect CrT. He is also a good friend, and helped me get going with Citadel programming, even though he hadn't even touched Citadel for 8 Years.
#2243 55 Tue Feb 18 12:44:48 1992 [My aim] Little Nemo [is true] @ Slumberland, Seattle, US 206 283-6771
Though I should point out that even $200 for a used computer and $80 for a phone line are extreme sacrifices for those of us at the bottom end of the income scale.
#2244 55 Tue Feb 18 14:24:00 1992 Kid Charlemagne @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the Moon, Blue Station
ford, at least one of us isn't in it for the respect (as we can see, there's damned little to go around, with five programmers and about, oh, fifteen users saying 'yes we respect you' [thanks she-zog! and you haven't even seen my program yet...wow. ":] that leaves us about three users each. ":) i'm in it for the curiosity factor... and, i suppose, out of a sense of frustration... nobody ever ran with my wacky ideas, except for maven, so i have to run with them myself... ":)
#1674 55 Tue Feb 18 15:27:31 1992 [Clear the roads...] Captain James T Kirk [Audin's in trafic safty...] @ Columbia Crest BBS, Olympia, US 206 786 9248
"hoseterm"?
#2242 55 Tue Feb 18 16:38:50 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
'if creativity is a field, copyright is the fence.' and beo is right. i don't believe in sacrifices of any kind. anything anybody does, they do for their own good, and with conscious intent to get something out of it.
#2245 55 Tue Feb 18 19:23:31 1992 Zod's Friend @ Outer Limits, (206)547-4227
That of course is a matter of opinon. Some of us do believe in sacrifice and selflessness, but this of course is another opinion :)
#2246 55 Wed Feb 19 09:40:15 1992 [Fight the power] Angela Davis [Dance a lot] @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
I don't buy the sacrifice bit anymore. Yeah, day was that a BBS took work. Now, I don't care if the people who call me think I'm Zippy The Pinhead. Some do, I'm sure. As long as they play by my rules, I don't care whether they revere me for my selfless devotion, because it doesn't exist. I do it because I like it. Anyone who runs a BBS for charity should get out.
#2247 55 Wed Feb 19 12:48:15 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
the argument is one of basic motivation, rather than the action itself. but it is a philosophical difference, and one that isn't really debatable. either you believe one way or the other. depends on your p.o.v. i believe in sacrifice and selflessness. but i believe that people are either doing it for some 'ulterior motive' (which does not lessen the action's quality of goodness or badness), or else they are some sort of psychologically damaged person who has to work for the happiness of others only, and not their own. thanks, but i'm the only person who really knows what _i_ want.
#2248 55 Wed Feb 19 13:08:04 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Oh, no you're not. I know you want a scalding bacon grease facial right now, Naut. :)
#2251 55 Wed Feb 19 18:29:27 1992 James Shields @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Respect? Sysops get no respect. Few authors get respect. Why do you think I stopped running the gateway? Why do you think Cynbe ru Taren stopped developing Cit in the first place? Why did Dave Bonn drop out of sight?
#2250 55 Wed Feb 19 18:59:04 1992 [I am] The Night Stalker [I kill. Thank You.] @ Aldur's Vale, Seattle, WA
Or for those of us who don't have an income. I am running my beast on my computer, which is also my main computer. I am sacrifciing CPU time in multitasking, but do I complain? Personally, I don't care....
#2249 55 Wed Feb 19 21:12:28 1992 []Do Me[] Cave Bear []Do Me, Bay-Beh[] @ Cave Bear's Laire, Kent
"Zippy the Pinhead"??? Heh heh heh.
#2252 55 Thu Feb 20 10:47:39 1992 Mark Willis @ The Log Cabin, Seattle, WA
Actually it's pretty for a sysop or a programmer to get respect - but they have to gift themselves with it first :) Then it doesn't matter what weirdness other people do, ya already can support yerself... Can be nice to comprehend where other people are at, of course, since it tends to increase personal safety... Long story :)
#2253 55 Thu Feb 20 11:02:00 1992 [Anger] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
because they were socially dysfunctional misfits who couldn't deal with having hundreds of OTHER socially dysfunctional misfits (like yrs trooly) calling their boards and acting like hundreds of soc. dysfunctional people do in that situation: have long, drawn-out fights over nothing important. sounds familiar, doesn't it? has NOTHING to do with respect. if you want respect, be a person worth respecting, and you'll get it. probably not from everyone. but so what? i find it hard to care if john shannon or merciful snatch or .... etc care about me, or respect me. maybe all y'all stopped running yr shit because you weren't being treated the way you thought you should be treated ... and i would ask, 'who's fault is that?'
#2254 55 Thu Feb 20 16:02:45 1992 [Once again] Saphyre [has a new # 725-5512] @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the Moon, Blue Station
We do what we do for ourselves, there are no selfless sysops or programmers.
#2255 55 Thu Feb 20 19:45:29 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
'Zippy the Pinhead' is actually rather a nice guy. He even owns Bob, Thanatos' old car.
#2326 55 Fri Feb 21 00:25:08 1992 Grendel @ PhotoSynthesis, Seattle, US WA 206 323 2433
I used to go to College with Zippy. We even had a class together. Cool guy.
#2327 55 Fri Feb 21 12:24:08 1992 Cissy @ so i'm lazy, lynnwood, wa, us
Wow!
#2328 55 Fri Feb 21 16:58:13 1992 [Honor] Naut Humon [Despair] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
hoseterm was, as i recall, a term program written by... actually, i dont' know for certain who wrote it. i think it was err head, but i might be wrong. anyway, hoseterm had these nice little functions, like selecting random names and insults, and scrolling boards with things like: twoflower fucks ford prefect's mom. epilogue mourne eats the shit of agressiva. that sort of thing. it used the names in the userlog, and posted different messages in all the rooms. beautiful piece of work.
#2459 55 Fri Feb 21 23:15:22 1992 brent @ so i'm lazy, lynnwood, wa, us
yes. it was err head's work. later versions did it all in e-mail.
#2457 55 Fri Feb 21 23:25:20 1992 Grendel @ PhotoSynthesis, Seattle, US WA 206 323 2433
I remember that. I had a copy of it for a while.
#2329 55 Sat Feb 22 08:23:32 1992 [Clear the roads...] Captain James T Kirk [Audin's in trafic safty...] @ Columbia Crest BBS, Olympia, US 206 786 9248
Sheesh...
#2710 55 Sat Feb 22 16:25:42 1992 [It's fallen] Errand [And he can't get it up!!!] @ Aldur's Vale, Seattle
Hummmm, I guess we are now considering ourselves Twits, since the discussion is about sops. I run a BBS cause i enjoy runnin it, i like chatin people, reading and postin messies, goofin around with the users. When i get tired of runnin a board it will come down, but i doubt it, since my users seem to like the board a lot. Another thing i like about BBS is that i have made a lot of good friends, that care and that care about, and nothing can replace that feeling. ;}
#2711 55 Sun Feb 23 15:37:49 1992 [Anagram(] Filthy Swirling Thing! [) = Fly Right in Whistling!] @ Slumberland, Seattle, US 206 283-6771
wow. i totally forgot about this room. i am really, really excited now.
#3329 55 Mon Feb 24 19:21:01 1992 Fred @ The Madhouse, Close to the Edge
Are you FS? You know, at one time sysops could talk in this room about nasty things that users could do to crash boards. Now it's so open there is no one I know that would dare mention such a thing in here.
#3330 55 Tue Feb 25 06:53:35 1992 [My aim] Little Nemo [is true] @ Slumberland, Seattle, US 206 283-6771
FST is a sysop, you know. Just in case you wondered. I'm sure most of you know him under other 'nyms, such as "Agressiva", "Kristin Austin", etc.
#3331 55 Tue Feb 25 07:19:37 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
"Big Daddy" is a snothead.
#3332 55 Tue Feb 25 15:58:12 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
Oh, I hear there are two "Big Daddy"'s on the network... on in Tacoma that claims to have nothing to do with the Big Daddy calling here. Not that I'd blame the Tacoma Big Daddy.
#3340 55 Tue Feb 25 18:24:37 1992 Aldur @ Aldur's Vale, Seattle
yeah.... but isn't it fun to have useless fights about seemingly stupid issues. If the sysop/programmer is selflessly doing what they do then that means that they want to (on some level or another) selflessly program or selflessly be a sop. And I apprecaite everyone who writes cit programs and distributes them because I like to call citadels and w/o the programmers it would be difficult. Ditto for the 'sops. But I won't worship anybody.
#3333 55 Tue Feb 25 20:48:43 1992 [Honor] Naut Humon [values] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
i would. the big daddy calling milliways is, as i'm sure most people have guessed by now (on here, anyway) probably our good 'ol buddy stark nekkid. but i'm just making a guess. and if you post a way to crash a cit on here, the word will get out faster, and people will fix their systems faster. face it, who is it that usually discovers bugs? brent or don kimberlin. how do they discover them? crashing your boards. anybody who wants to know, and is mean enough to want to do it PROBABLY already has access to this room. your day-to-day 'L00ZER' that calls in will not go out and start crashing the seattle boards everywhere, unless they did that sort of thing already, in which case, their initials are probably bib or dk, and they know most of the bugs to start with. at least, that's how i sees it. and again i reiterate, if this room were open, it could discuss the 'true' twit users, like 'master control' or the like who are unknown and run around honestly destroying boards for the fun of it. and if EVERYONE knew about it, ideas would come in much quicker as to how to defeat the twit, and users would be more disposed to mention weird mail and the like, knowing that it wasn't some rare event.
#3335 55 Wed Feb 26 09:33:28 1992 [Once again] Saphyre [has a new # 725-5512] @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the Moon
The room is not open because what one swysop things is a twit may not be what the rest of the community thinks and why should we insult everybody. The users don't need to see this room, it would not really add to their enjoyment and it certainly would not promote the SYSOPS to post the problems they may be having with users. one last note I thought Grendel held the award for crashing systems
#3336 55 Wed Feb 26 17:47:37 1992 Grendel @ Amber, Bellevue, US WA 206 643 9643
Someone name the systems I have crashed on purpose... I want a list because you will find it is rather short. You could almost say non-existant. I have crashed a number of boards before. In ALL occasions that I can remember (including Red Dwarf) it was by accident that it occured. The same as 99% of the crashes that happen on any of your systems. Hell, I accidently crashed Thee Crossroads a few days ago and I'm a sysop there.
#3337 55 Wed Feb 26 18:28:34 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
My system has crashed only once, and that was due to a hard drive failure. I have never had my system crashed by a user. It was thrashed on by resident one time, but that's because he had aide access and felt like doing it. Never again will he have aide access on my BBS. :)
#3334 55 Wed Feb 26 19:16:23 1992 [Memory Alpha SysGoddess] Heather R. Scott @ Memory Alpha, Kent, US 206 859 6200
If you're talking about opening this room up to other than sysops, I disagree... and aide got in here, and told a user that we were discussing him, and the sh*t hit the fan!
#3341 55 Wed Feb 26 20:41:16 1992 Kid Charlemagne @ Shades of Blue, Dark side of the Moon
v didn't think anyone was asking you to peel grapes, aldur.. ":)
#3338 55 Wed Feb 26 22:54:38 1992 [Honor] Naut Humon [values] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
if you aren't willing to call a user a twit to their face, or post a message to that effect in public, you have no business stating the same message in a semi-private room. you are totally free to discuss it in mail, or amongst your friends. but in a 'forum', where you do not know everyone? i'll make it simple. as long as i am reading in here, i'll announce to all the users on the net, via topic drift, that they are being discussed as a 'twit' in this room. in the courtroom, it's innocent until proven guilty. on the boards, it's usually innocent until proven guilty ONCE, and then you're guilty for life. i'm just as much at fault for that sort of mentality as everyone else. but i don't see why we should perpetuate it by providing sysops a room to backstab users they may not like, and prevent them from getting access on other systems, or 'warning' other sysops about this person.
#3339 55 Thu Feb 27 00:20:55 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
well of course the shit is going to hit the fan. But the individual sysops should speak to a user first before they get discussed in here, letting them know that their behavior is unacceptable. THEN, once they are warned, go ahead and mention them if they continue. I'm quite sure Ettin and Hombre know that their names come up in here quite often, and they don't care. They LIKE to act like they do.
#3342 55 Thu Feb 27 05:16:10 1992 Zog T. Barbarian @ Fantasia UnLtd., North Seattle Hell
so tell me Twoflower just what is Naut doing here?
#3343 55 Thu Feb 27 07:15:47 1992 Beowulf [Sysop] @ Mayday 1, (206)548-9447
Naut Humon, you know a good number of the people involved in this discussion. In person, how many of them talk demeaningly about someone they are face to face with, how many talk demeaningly about people that are not within hearing, and how many don't ever talk demeaningly about others. I'm not asking for specifics, but I think what you know of people's personalities might provide some insight into why this topic was made group-only, and why it has remained such.
#3344 55 Thu Feb 27 15:00:13 1992 [Nothing But] Twoflower @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
He's a sysop of Alteredimages.
#3345 55 Thu Feb 27 17:00:54 1992 [Honor] Naut Humon [values] @ Milliways, Bainbridge Island, WA/US/(206)842-2419
zog: i'm a sysop on alteredimages, which wasn't netting for quite a while, and i can't log onto that board using the telnet down at evergreen. but in another sense, i'm in here because i have an opinion, and something i want to say. nothing else should matter. if the opinions of this group of people 'sysops' matter so much to a user, then they should be able to see what people think about them. maybe that would encourage them the change their behaviour. if they don't care, then they can seet this room because it won't matter to them. and again: if the shit hits the fan because some user finds out they're talking about them in here, is that the fault of the person breaking the privacy, or the fault of the group for causing the privacy in the first place?
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